Flying freight of a striking airline does not make you a scab, but being scheduled on a flight to do struck routes does. Same with the airlines, you can't be called a scab if you fly a striking airlines passengers unless you are doing their replacement routes.
Amerijet On Strike!
- Thread starter 727to7400
- Start date
Flying freight of a striking airline does not make you a scab, but being scheduled on a flight to do struck routes does. Same with the airlines, you can't be called a scab if you fly a striking airlines passengers unless you are doing their replacement routes.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
There we go. That sounds a little more realistic.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
He never said that. He simply pointed out that on bigger airplanes (ie not barons and metros) everything is palletized. It's just how the operation works. Is it possible that they'd just thrown some boxes into the back of a 727 or 757 and wrap netting around them? Sure. But the company had better have a way of figuring out the loading weights and balances that way.
But, as you both said, that's irrelevant to this thread. Even if the cargo is taken off the pallet and loaded onto a small plane it will still have an airbill attached. The airbill will have the exact same information that palletized cargo would have, including the shipper. If it says AMJ it doesn't get on the plane. Simple as that.
If it wasn't legally required, do you really think they'd still put that information on the pallets so guys could decide what freight to bump?
jynxyjoe
Queso King
I know on trucks they also have waybills. Is it possible it would be related or passed down from trucking regs? Or something to comply with interstate commerce? May not directly be in Title 14 cFR
Any increase in frequency or capacity is considered struck work in the passenger world.
I know that with cargo carriers, they refuse struck freight. In the passenger world you can't becuase the passengers don't have name tags saying "I BOUGHT MY TICKET FROM THIS AIRLINE" when they get on the plane.
The whole point of this is to avoid the company being struck from being able to get through the strike easier. Carrying any struck freight is counter to that. Every piece of freight you carry is a piece that isn't sitting there putting pressure on the company to end the strike.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
You're thinking about this wrong. It's not a operating regulation as in something you'd see in 135 or 121 but rather Federal or State laws.
Section 20 of the Interstate Commerce Act requires a Common Carrier to issue a Bill of Lading for anything they carry between two States.
For intra state carriage there may not be any requirement. That depends on the individual State's laws.
For international carriage most country's customs laws require a Bill of Lading for entry.
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
Thank you BobDDuck.
I knew it was a rule, but I've been trolling all over for it.
We have this class every year where we learn all about it, but I never had a source, but I knew it existed.
That's part of it. Another part is some freight is "guaranteed" freight meaning the company is paid extra money to guarantee it will be delivered by x date. This is usually the freight they try to sneak on other carriers because it's a BIG $$$ issue if they don't get it delivered. That's why that freight sitting there can put more pressure on them. If you carry the freight, that income is still coming in, even if it's not as much.
Some shipments have a higher penalty if they aren't delivered on time than the shipper is actually paying the company in the first place!
...and it would require the BOL for a "scheduled 121" operator or a "charter" operator the same. They're both Common Carriers.
Correction. They both can be common carriers.
-mini
Do you know what "common carrier" means?
God, I certainly hope so. Maybe I should go ask our certification inspector guy what it that on 70% of our documents.
-mini
What?
I'm just going to go with what I think you're trying to say.
On a small plane it's possible to have individual packages but only one Bill of Lading (BOL, in the truck freight industry we just called them "bills"). On a large plane becuase it's palletized, the BOL will be on the pallets. You could theoretically take the pallets down and have a 747 of individual boxes, but that REALLY doesn't work very well. It also doesn't work to mix different shipments on one pallet since they are going to different places.
A copy of the BOL should be on at least one piece of each shipment as well as another copy of each BOL should go with the vehicle manifest.
A company could try to only break down pallets of the random struck shipment they are trying to get through, but then that's kind of obvious when everything else is on a pallet. And they can't just not put the BOL on the shipment.
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
Super simple, and probably the easiest way to explain it.
If this doesn't straighten it out, then I'll throw up my hands.
What I think of when I think of small plane 135 cargo, is a single customer is usually how it works. I can't think of any integrators that run 135. Maybe IBC.
You have a parts run, say from a Ford plant in Kokomo Indiana up to Yipsilanti. There is one customer that pays for a plane. They put their transmissions or what ever on that one plane, it goes up to YIP, and the charter is done. No common carrier.
DHL needs a metro to do a feeder run out of CVG. DHL's name is on the airwaybills attached to the packages. DHL is the common carrier.
Grand Aire holds out services in a Falcon 20. Dana contracts with them to fly axels from their plant to Ford. Grand Aire is the common carrier and the shipment from one customer to the other is done. But it's one customer on the plane, so everyone knows where the part comes from.
Neither is the case, but it can be on large planes, for AmeriJet.
AmeriJet gets the cargo from individuals. They slap an AmeriJet airwaybill on it, because there are many customers that go to many destinations, much like the DHL scenario above. If individual packages are loaded, they each have an airway bill attached. More commonly, becuase the airplanes are big and have really big doors in them and cargo handling systems, they build up pallets or fill up ULDs with many customer's packages. While there are many, many labels on the inside of each, they also put a tag on the outside of the pallet with the operator and the weight.
Why do they tag it? So they can prove it belongs to them.
Trust me on this. After the strike that I wasn't at Polar for in 2005, it's a hot topic. I've learned alot from guys that were looking all for this stuff. Much of the information just came from guys doing this for 20+ years too.
If this doesn't straighten it out, then I'll throw up my hands.
What I think of when I think of small plane 135 cargo, is a single customer is usually how it works. I can't think of any integrators that run 135. Maybe IBC.
You have a parts run, say from a Ford plant in Kokomo Indiana up to Yipsilanti. There is one customer that pays for a plane. They put their transmissions or what ever on that one plane, it goes up to YIP, and the charter is done. No common carrier.
DHL needs a metro to do a feeder run out of CVG. DHL's name is on the airwaybills attached to the packages. DHL is the common carrier.
Grand Aire holds out services in a Falcon 20. Dana contracts with them to fly axels from their plant to Ford. Grand Aire is the common carrier and the shipment from one customer to the other is done. But it's one customer on the plane, so everyone knows where the part comes from.
Neither is the case, but it can be on large planes, for AmeriJet.
AmeriJet gets the cargo from individuals. They slap an AmeriJet airwaybill on it, because there are many customers that go to many destinations, much like the DHL scenario above. If individual packages are loaded, they each have an airway bill attached. More commonly, becuase the airplanes are big and have really big doors in them and cargo handling systems, they build up pallets or fill up ULDs with many customer's packages. While there are many, many labels on the inside of each, they also put a tag on the outside of the pallet with the operator and the weight.
Why do they tag it? So they can prove it belongs to them.
Trust me on this. After the strike that I wasn't at Polar for in 2005, it's a hot topic. I've learned alot from guys that were looking all for this stuff. Much of the information just came from guys doing this for 20+ years too.
I know what you mean, but I'm going to jump on this before someone else does.
To clarify: if you have a shipment of 20 boxes that was on a pallet, you can break it down to boxes and still have one BOL. BUT each box will have to be labled to keep it associated with it's BOL so you have some type of a clue of where it's going and all boxes will have to stay on the same vehicle, vessel, or aircraft as the BOL.
WacoFan
Bigly
This sounds like a reasonable statement.
This doesn't sound as reasonable because the end result is the company being struck doesn't benefit from other carriers hauling their passengers. In fact, having other operations hauling the pax would make the company being struck weaker while their competitors benefit from managments inability to broker a deal with the union. Perhaps I am seeing this wrong. If Amerijet has to hire a competitor to fly freight, Amerijet has undertaken the marketing and "people" cost of much of the operation, but then has to hire a competitor to haul the freight, potentially causing lost revenue to Amerijet. I doubt the freight contracts are so lucrative and profit margins so fat that there is plenty to go around - but this is an uneducated guess.
As you said, it's an uneducated guess.
They can still make money that way since the normal COSTS also go away.
This is very important becuase you're putting pressure from multiple directions on the struck company. Increases in aircraft guage or frequency is a big deal from this perspective. Airlines also tend to let eachother buy discounted tickets. So while they might still be putting people on competitors, they are still making money doing so. This lets them run a strike much longer than they could otherwise.