Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
Go up to post 10ish and they have updated the news link...if you really need to see.
Ameriflight PA-31 Accident - Arizona
- Thread starter Inverted
- Start date
z987k
Well-Known Member
See that's beyond stupid. It should be authorized to whatever the F you need that the airplane is capable of. The way they do things I'd not be surprised if someone was scared to go over 12k for no reason. I've said numerous times, I'd seen people who would fly the SOP into a mountain. I just hope this isn't the case.
z987k
Well-Known Member
Ah.. I need to further elaborate. From talking to a couple friends... sounds like tops were in the 16k range. If it's real crap winter wx, there's no reason not to be flying at over 16k in an airplane capable of FL250. oh except for hilarious artificial limitations.
Cal Goat
Prestige Worldwide™
I remember we had 2 relatively newish guys in a PA31 who encountered light ice over the central valley in California and then got into a dispute about whether to climb higher or descend. I've sat in moderate ice in a Chieftain multiple times. It's not comfortable, but the airplanes I flew didn't struggle too bad.
z987k
Well-Known Member
I've seen the same argument, only over the Willamette Valley. One of the people mentioned the altitude "limitation" as a factor for not going higher. So I've seen stupidity learned.
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
RIP to a fallen aviator.
Icing in AZ/NM/CO/UT is no joke; I had an icing encounter out there in a Turbo Seminole about 10 years ago that I was lucky to get out of. Tops reported to 16,000, and I took it to FL200 (service ceiling) to get on top. I found out that reported tops are not the same as actual tops, and that the tail would buffet from the ice load after about 30 knots of IAS had been lost. It's a story best told over beers with all the details intact, but it was a foundational experience.
Icing in AZ/NM/CO/UT is no joke; I had an icing encounter out there in a Turbo Seminole about 10 years ago that I was lucky to get out of. Tops reported to 16,000, and I took it to FL200 (service ceiling) to get on top. I found out that reported tops are not the same as actual tops, and that the tail would buffet from the ice load after about 30 knots of IAS had been lost. It's a story best told over beers with all the details intact, but it was a foundational experience.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
Did he have oxygen? Was there already too much ice to climb? Tons of questions to be asked but too little info to go off of before throwing around blame.
Personally I never felt the requirement to stay below 12k in the PA31 to be 100% binding. Way too many routes where terrain and weather just don't allow for a 12k ceiling.
Been there. My old route with PM Air/ Scenic (we had the UPS contract before Ameriflight) used to be PHX-SOW-HOL in a PA-31-350 or a 208. It can get bad there this time of year.
And, won't be the last.....unfortunately.
Ironically, the Mazatzal mountains is the location of a Williams AFB T-38 crash in 1986 that I featured in an accident synopsis here on JC:
http://forums.jetcareers.com/thread...weather-and-a-hard-place.120402/#post-1665896
What's the story on this?
And, won't be the last.....unfortunately.
Ironically, the Mazatzal mountains is the location of a Williams AFB T-38 crash in 1986 that I featured in an accident synopsis here on JC:
http://forums.jetcareers.com/thread...weather-and-a-hard-place.120402/#post-1665896
What's the story on this?
Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
I'll have to look it up tomorrow, or maybe Mikecweb can help in this, but basically, from what we were told, and the NTSB reports we saw, there was a BE-58 flown by an Airnet pilot. He encountered wake turbulence on short final, crashed, and caught fire. Due to CFR not knowing what was on the plane, they kept their distance. He survived for several hours after, but finally succumbed to his injuries. Granted, I am going off of knowledge from indoc from 2005, and may have some details wrong...
What I do remember vividly, and what they were trying to preach, was to make sure your HAZMAT paperwork was good to go so CFR would not do it again. It may have been a little bit of a wives'-tale to make sure we did our paperwork, but I will never forget thinking about a poor guy being burned to death eventually due to wake turbulence, and possibly a paperwork problem.
If that was what actually happened, Id be very surprised. Only in the sense that (as a CFR firefighter who still does it on contract basis), while HAZMAT would be a high concern with an aircraft accident, rescue ops have always topped that as one of the "risks of the game" in terms of exposure. Fight the fire from uphill/upwind to the max extent possible, and that solves most of the problems off the bat...at least enough to effect the rescue of one person, especially if there is no complex extrication requirement. That's just why Im mildly curious of the details......every accident is a learning event from the CFR side of things, just as it is for the aviation side of things.
Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
Like I said, a few beers, and the wrong side of the clock, plus almost a decade removed from the story, and I may have some of it wrong. But that is what I remember. I'll look it up tomorrow if no other info shows up tonight. I'll break it into it's own thread even, since I don't think this is the right place to discuss another fatal...
Thats cool. The facts are somewhere in the middle, Im sure.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
I dont feel comfortable posting the full name yet.
As for icing a Chieftain I have iced the hell out of that thing plenty of times and it always took ice really well. And I would always descend out of ice if it was safe to do so.
Probably not a good idea until either cleared in some way by the company, or if it appears in the media having been released.
The Chieftain handles ice like a champ, have ops tested that a number of times.
