American Pilots Hate New Uniform

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Just don't get too attached to that profit sharing in lieu of pay rates. Profit sharing can dry up quickly when things take the inevitable turn downwards. At least they have to fight to get the pay rates reduced in a downturn. The profit sharing just disappears automatically.

 

[AAPalmTree]

Just don't get too attached to that profit sharing in lieu of pay rates. Profit sharing can dry up quickly when things take the inevitable turn downwards. At least they have to fight to get the pay rates reduced in a downturn. The profit sharing just disappears automatically.

Exactly. One guy from Isis can change that. I'll take the guarantee. I think it's funny to see the DL guys get their feathers ruffled because they make less by the hour.

 

[derg]

Exactly. One guy from Isis can change that. I'll take the guarantee. I think it's funny to see the DL guys get their feathers ruffled because they make less by the hour.

I can speak on this one.

I've heard no mention of it at all. I haven't heard a coworker off the internet mention any type of comparison, any consternation or anything else.

No ruffled feathers whatsoever because we have different work rules which leads to a very different compensation package and that's cool.

The concept of profit sharing, I'm not too fond of primarily because it's "at risk". But until we have a new contract, which is in the process of being negotiated, that "at risk" quarterly profit sharing check is has been pretty impressive. I know it can go away tomorrow with a rejiggering of the spreadsheet and I would certainly like to see it folded into hourly rates. But I'd have been an idiot, especially after the one last month, to thumb my nose at it.

Comparing two very different contracts is like comparing cars. Car A may have flat tires, a cool stereo and a big engine with poor compression. Car B may have good tires, an "ok" stereo and a 300 HP twin turbo. Car C might have awesome tires, no stereo and a 235 horsepower and a great gearbox.

Anyone outside of the internet penis measuring contest is going to understand that.

 

[jtrain609]

I can speak on this one.

I've heard no mention of it at all. I haven't heard a coworker off the internet mention any type of comparison, any consternation or anything else.

No ruffled feathers whatsoever because we have different work rules which leads to a very different compensation package and that's cool.

The concept of profit sharing, I'm not too fond of primarily because it's "at risk". But until we have a new contract, which is in the process of being negotiated, that "at risk" quarterly profit sharing check is has been pretty impressive. I know it can go away tomorrow with a rejiggering of the spreadsheet and I would certainly like to see it folded into hourly rates. But I'd have been an idiot, especially after the one last month, to thumb my nose at it.

Comparing two very different contracts is like comparing cars. Car A may have flat tires, a cool stereo and a big engine with poor compression. Car B may have good tires, an "ok" stereo and a 300 HP twin turbo. Car C might have awesome tires, no stereo and a 235 horsepower and a great gearbox.

Anyone outside of the internet penis measuring contest is going to understand that.

We're measuring penises?

 

[wheelsup]

Exactly. One guy from Isis can change that. I'll take the guarantee. I think it's funny to see the DL guys get their feathers ruffled because they make less by the hour.

DL's contract and total compensation even outside of profit sharing makes the AA "contract" look like it was written on toilet paper.

About the most you could ever expect to credit at AA is 85-87 hours. If you went all out and worked your butt off. We have no min day pay, I'm going to work a 3 day today for 10 hours of pay. Min days off for a block holder is 10! We have no minimum monthly guarantee! We stay in sub standard motels! The only thing keeping us in downtown locations was the old FA contract for Pete's sake! We even gave the company carte blanche to reduce our healthcare plans over a couple hundred dollars a year in taxes! But it's cool, we have the highest hourly rates out there..

Shall we even mention that the vast majority of contract improvements that were voted on in January have a "TBD" implementation time on them!?! I was transitioned to short called 10 days already this month despite the max being FIVE per the contract. The company "due to IT limits", refuses to implement practically all of the contract improvements aside from pay rates!

Our company is expanding the commuter flying while we lose 30-40 airplanes this year alone on the mainline side. DL is bringing additional flying back from their commuters hiring over a thousand this year. AA has one of the lowest PRASM amongst the carriers yet has the lowest fuel price and lowest labor costs. The highest growth/margin market, Asia, DL has 45% market share and UA has 36%. We have 12%. Our largest market focus in L. America is the weakest performing market in the world. And our guys are more concerned about having to button TWO buttons vs. ONE rather than looking sharp for the premium passengers our management wants to cater too.

 

[AAPalmTree]

DL's contract and total compensation even outside of profit sharing makes the AA "contract" look like it was written on toilet paper.

About the most you could ever expect to credit at AA is 85-87 hours. If you went all out and worked your butt off. We have no min day pay, I'm going to work a 3 day today for 10 hours of pay. Min days off for a block holder is 10! We have no minimum monthly guarantee! We stay in sub standard motels! The only thing keeping us in downtown locations was the old FA contract for Pete's sake! We even gave the company carte blanche to reduce our healthcare plans over a couple hundred dollars a year in taxes! But it's cool, we have the highest hourly rates out there..

Shall we even mention that the vast majority of contract improvements that were voted on in January have a "TBD" implementation time on them!?! I was transitioned to short called 10 days already this month despite the max being FIVE per the contract. The company "due to IT limits", refuses to implement practically all of the contract improvements aside from pay rates!

Our company is expanding the commuter flying while we lose 30-40 airplanes this year alone on the mainline side. DL is bringing additional flying back from their commuters hiring over a thousand this year. AA has one of the lowest PRASM amongst the carriers yet has the lowest fuel price and lowest labor costs. The highest growth/margin market, Asia, DL has 45% market share and UA has 36%. We have 12%. Our largest market focus in L. America is the weakest performing market in the world. And our guys are more concerned about having to button TWO buttons vs. ONE rather than looking sharp for the premium passengers our management wants to cater too.

Sounds like you should look for a new job. I work very little and get a very good paycheck for what I do. There are only a few hotels I have found to be sub standard. One crappy hotel is a short where DL stays as well. The company is not dumping the short/long. The grass is always greener my friend. I'm not defending our contract. I would suggest you get on a different plane or wait and get a little seniority. You're on reserve and you're flying the crappy trips for a reason. They have been dumped. I fly some crap too. I never break guarantee. Which is great and ends up not mattering anyway.

 

[derg]

Sounds like you should look for a new job. I work very little and get a very good paycheck for what I do. There are only a few hotels I have found to be sub standard. One crappy hotel is a short where DL stays as well. The company is not dumping the short/long. The grass is always greener my friend. I'm not defending our contract. I would suggest you get on a different plane or wait and get a little seniority. You're on reserve and you're flying the crappy trips for a reason. They have been dumped. I fly some crap too. I never break guarantee. Which is great and ends up not mattering anyway.

What's all the comparison, I really don't understand. If we're at a crappy hotel, I'm certainly going to FCR the hell out of it. Whether or not UAL also stays there is immaterial.

 

[derg]

Sounds like you should look for a new job. I work very little and get a very good paycheck for what I do. There are only a few hotels I have found to be sub standard. One crappy hotel is a short where DL stays as well. The company is not dumping the short/long. The grass is always greener my friend. I'm not defending our contract. I would suggest you get on a different plane or wait and get a little seniority. You're on reserve and you're flying the crappy trips for a reason. They have been dumped. I fly some crap too. I never break guarantee. Which is great and ends up not mattering anyway.

What's all the comparison, I really don't understand. If we're at a crappy hotel, I'm certainly going to FCR the hell out of it. Whether or not UAL also stays there is immaterial.

 

[wheelsup]

Sounds like you should look for a new job. I work very little and get a very good paycheck for what I do. There are only a few hotels I have found to be sub standard. One crappy hotel is a short where DL stays as well. The company is not dumping the short/long. The grass is always greener my friend. I'm not defending our contract. I would suggest you get on a different plane or wait and get a little seniority. You're on reserve and you're flying the crappy trips for a reason. They have been dumped. I fly some crap too. I never break guarantee. Which is great and ends up not mattering anyway.

Living in base and bidding short call, you can't say you don't work much. You work 18 days a month. You might not actually go in, but you have to be beholden to the company.

In comparison next month my block has 18 days off. I bid reserve this month rolling the dice. I lost.

Yet we still don't get min day, still stay in crappy hotels, and the long list of other things I mentioned still applies. But you wouldn't know or care, because "you don't work very much".

 

[derg]

I know if we lost minimum day, it would be a killer.

I flew a 5 day trip, which blocked at 19.34, but because of minimums, it paid 26.15 otherwise I'd end up working more days.

Is there still "minutes under"? Where if a leg is scheduled at say 3.52, but you fly 3.18, you still get "block or better"?

 

[AAPalmTree]

Living in base and bidding short call, you can't say you don't work much. You work 18 days a month. You might not actually go in, but you have to be beholden to the company.

In comparison next month my block has 18 days off. I bid reserve this month rolling the dice. I lost.

Yet we still don't get min day, still stay in crappy hotels, and the long list of other things I mentioned still applies. But you wouldn't know or care, because "you don't work very much".

I guess I'm a glass half full guy. Good luck.

 

[wheelsup]

I know if we lost minimum day, it would be a killer.

I flew a 5 day trip, which blocked at 19.34, but because of minimums, it paid 26.15 otherwise I'd end up working more days.

Is there still "minutes under"? Where if a leg is scheduled at say 3.52, but you fly 3.18, you still get "block or better"?

Quite frankly no one really knows what we have since even if it's in the contract, the company has "chosen" not to implement it.

 

[wheelsup]

I guess I'm a glass half full guy. Good luck.

I just don't think it's fair to be lectured about how it is from someone who doesn't even do that much flying and hardly comes in.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Living in base and bidding short call, you can't say you don't work much. You work 18 days a month. You might not actually go in, but you have to be beholden to the company.

In comparison next month my block has 18 days off. I bid reserve this month rolling the dice. I lost.

Yet we still don't get min day, still stay in crappy hotels, and the long list of other things I mentioned still applies. But you wouldn't know or care, because "you don't work very much".

That's sort of the "sliding scale" for me as well.

If I'm going to spend, as I have been, 19(+) days per month (read: in a hotel room, really) at work, I want to be well-compensated for it, and I want to have it be a relatively pleasant experience. If it's not a pleasant experience, I wind up getting progressively more and more worn out/tired/etc.

If I'm going to have 19 days off a month, I don't mind being confined to the Kansas City Crowne Plaza Downtown, where they are currently splitting my head with the fire alarm ("This is only a test, the building is not actually on fire....we think...") right before report time on the much vaunted Go Home Day.

I just don't think it's fair to be lectured about how it is from someone who doesn't even do that much flying and hardly comes in.

Cognitive dissonance.

"I don't know what you're complaining about, everything is awesome for me."

 

[AAPalmTree]

I know if we lost minimum day, it would be a killer.

I flew a 5 day trip, which blocked at 19.34, but because of minimums, it paid 26.15 otherwise I'd end up working more days.

Is there still "minutes under"? Where if a leg is scheduled at say 3.52, but you fly 3.18, you still get "block or better"?

We have a min duty day not calendar day. Assuming your trip was 5 duty periods it would pay at least 25:50.
Also a 1:3.5 rig. Check in at noon first day out at noon last day it would pay at least 27:42 regardless of how many duty periods.
We get block or better.
Previous poster was talking about our 3 day red eyes. They only have two duty periods.
Day 1 leave CLT at 7p CLT-LAX
Day 2 leave LAX at 10p LAX-CLT
Arrive at 6-8am day 3 only will pay 10-12hours.
Would pay 15:30 if we were able to secure min calendar.

 

[AAPalmTree]

I just don't think it's fair to be lectured about how it is from someone who doesn't even do that much flying and hardly comes in.

Apologies. Did not mean to lecture.

 

[derg]

We have a min duty day not calendar day. Assuming your trip was 5 duty periods it would pay at least 25:50.
Also a 1:3.5 rig. Check in at noon first day out at noon last day it would pay at least 27:42 regardless of how many duty periods.
We get block or better.
Previous poster was talking about our 3 day red eyes. They only have two duty periods.
Day 1 leave CLT at 7p CLT-LAX
Day 2 leave LAX at 10p LAX-CLT
Arrive at 6-8am day 3 only will pay 10-12hours.
Would pay 15:30 if we were able to secure min calendar.

Cool.

Trust me, the only "competition" of any type between our pilot groups is fully imaginary. Except those ridiculous "KDA" stickers which is both hilarious and leaves some of us confused about its purpose.

 

[L-16B]

Cool.

Trust me, the only "competition" of any type between our pilot groups is fully imaginary. Except those ridiculous "KDA" stickers which is both hilarious and leaves some of us confused about its purpose.

I've never seen one of those. Maybe our fuhrer Dougie has one on his bumper?

 

[skyw82]

Cool.

Trust me, the only "competition" of any type between our pilot groups is fully imaginary. Except those ridiculous "KDA" stickers which is both hilarious and leaves some of us confused about its purpose.

People are with those stickers are probation pilots who are still full of the cool aid. After they get 100 hours in the airbus they will realize this is job is same as their last.

I've never seen one of those. Maybe our fuhrer Dougie has one on his bumper?

I saw one in the philly crew room last week.

 

[AAPalmTree]

We are all equally embarrassed by KDA.

I've never seen one of those. Maybe our fuhrer Dougie has one on his bumper?

I'd like to get a bunch of those and slap them on bar windows and ski lifts all around the U.S. because they are just. so. stupid.