American Eagle: A Career Airline

Depends on where you want to work. If you want to work for a major airline in the US, then it's pretty much a prerequisite. The guys hired at CAL without it were few and far between.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
Depends on where you want to work. If you want to work for a major airline in the US, then it's pretty much a prerequisite. The guys hired at CAL without it were few and far between.
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I guess it depends. It's not listed in Delta's hiring requirements.

It might make you competitive, but acting like it's some endorsement on an ATP ticket that's job required just seems odd.
 
In the late 1990s I believe there were only 2 airlines that required TPIC. FedEx and SWA.

regional first officers left in droves to go to the majors (and subsequently found themselves unqualified when the rules to the game changed post 9/11).

As a matter of fact my class at AirTran in June of 1998 was about 50% CCAir (defunct USAir Express) Jetstream 31 First Officers with zero TPIC. In January of 1999 at my US Airways newhire class there were many, many FOs who either lacked TPIC entirely, or simply didn't have the 1000. There were Airways pilots who had flown the 737 for 15 years who, when furloughed post 9/11, were not qualified to apply at Southwest. Sad.

I would imagine that many of the Captains ATN Pilot flies with today are of the same pedigree.
 
When Bill was hired by DL in Oct '98 (and by TWA in Feb '97 for that matter), he had zero TPIC. Zero. Lots of PIC, he'd been a CFI for years, but no TPIC.

He was a CA for a year, before getting displaced back to F/O, he flew with many new-hires on the 88 in ATL. Most were VERY surprised to hear that was his first CA seat... They were all former regional CAs.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
I would imagine that many of the Captains ATN Pilot flies with today are of the same pedigree.
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Nope. There are a few, but not many. Remember, the vast majority of our pilot group was hired after you left. The guys that were hired in your time frame are in the top 200 on the list, and we have over 700 captains now. AirTran added a 500 part 121/military PIC minimum requirement not long after your departure, and they've never wavered from it. It's very rare to fly with someone who got his first command at AirTran.
 
Firebird2XC said:
Our contract with AA is not indefinite. That does not, however, have anything to do with AMR's 'financial health'.

It might be influenced based on AMR's interest in profitability, but that's unlikely. Due to the wholly owned nature of the operation, our inherent costs to AA as a subsidiary aren't as transparent as they seem. We don't cost as much as it might look, depending on who's talking about what.

Mind you, I'm not making the DeltaConnection-style assumption that 'being wholly owned is everything'. I'm just saying that we're the more cost effective growth vehicle at AMR, so doing away with us vs the AA side of the house doesn't make financial sense when compared to AA. That's the whole point, really, and why Eagle has become a career location.

Considering the long-believed concept of Eagle doing the bulk of domestic flying and AA doing domestic long haul and intercontinental flying as a business model, Eagle being cast off is unlikely.
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Just remember what happened to Comair. They were Delta's sole (I think?) RJ connector carrier. They were large and had Delta by the balls. After the strike, Delta has seen the stupidity of having one company do all their flying. While it may cost slightly more to have multiple carriers do the flying the cost to Delta long term is much less.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
I don't see your carrier being much different. Remember I was furloughed from there in 1998. Shortly thereafter they outsourced a significant amount of flying to Air Wisconsin and Ryan International.

<shrug> Could happen anywhere I guess.
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I think Air Wisconsin had 5 or 10 planes, all 50 seaters. It wasn't an outsource per se, they used our planes to bust open new markets for them. It was a very limited time deal.
 
I can't imagine going to a major after spending a few months or a year or two at a commuter. Wow. What a life.
 
Hootie said:
I will do whatever it takes to escape the regionals. Including leaving aviation.
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Cruise said:
(and make no mistake about it...being employed by a regional carrier is being stuck),
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I've just entered my 5th year at Eagle (March 6th was my 4 year anniversay), and I will be honest in saying that there are times that I do, indeed, feel "stuck."

Those times come when I compare my regional career with those of my compadres like kellwolf who started his regional career at Pinnacle the very same day as I began mine at Eagle, and he upgraded almost two years ago.

Put us head to head in an interview for a major, and he's probably be chosen before me due to his TPIC.

That said, there are many, many times that I am VERY thankful for my time in the right seat. Especially when I get to fly with captains that have up to 23 years of experience to impart.

The way I see my career at Eagle is three-fold:
1. I can stay here and there will be movement that will allow me to upgrade; thus upping my stock in the aviation community once I do hold some TPIC;

2. I can pursue a career in the corporate world once the economy pics up, because, let's face it, the corporate aviation side of things isn't exactly booming either. However, I will most likely still run into the lack of TPIC issue there as well;

3. I can stay with Eagle, in the right seat, gaining hours and hours of very beneficial Part 121 experieince, all the while gleaning as much knowledge from my uber experienced counterparts, then roll the dice and shoot for a major in hopes that my years of Part 121 experience - though lacking in TPIC time - will be seen as beneficial to their compay.

I most certainly don't feel slilghted in any way. Even after two years in the right seat (comparing my career again to kellwolf), I PERSONALLY didn't feel ready to make that switch to the left.

I do now, and it will happen whether it's here or somewhere else.

I -again personally - would not trade my time/experience at my regional carrier for anything.

If you (general "you") can somehow find a way to bypass the regionals, be thaty flying feight, or....however.....just make sure that you are happy where you are if the "music stops" again because there are absolutely ZERO guarantees that any....let me reiterate.....ANY such path, be it regional, freight, etc.......will lead to something "bigger."

Fortunately for guys like myself and kellwolf, we were/are in a decent position this time that the music stopped. He's gaining TPIC, and I'm gaining loads of very very beneficial Part 121 experience.

How that will play out down the road is anyones guess.

Best of luck to one in all in whatever path you choose. Just remember, many major airlines view Part 121 experience as a must (military experience/traininig notwithstanding - sometimes that's given significant respect as well...as it should).

There's no clear cut path to flying the "big iron" for the legacies, but don't be so fast to downplay the importance of the experience one can gain from flying regional aircraft for a regional carrier.

We all share the same skies, so fly safe and best of all that this career has to offer.

R2F
 
I want to be an FO long enough at my regional to make more money in the right seat than the newly minted, JR to me, CA in the left seat.

You guys work too hard at this.
 
Cactus_Cutter said:
I want to be an FO long enough at my regional to make more money in the right seat than the newly minted, JR to me, CA in the left seat.

You guys work too hard at this.
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I doubt that is going to happen. FO pay scales top out at around $40-$45/hr. The only way you'd make more is if you worked a LOT more, OT, etc. and the other guy dropped trips.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
I've always appreciated the baseball analogy.

Every kid loves baseball. Some even play it in highschool or college. But only a select few of those kids ever has the opportunity to play for the minor leagues. Every single minor league ball player dreams of playing for the majors. But of those thousands of minor league baseball players around the country... only a handful will ever be selected to play for the majors.

The rest can make a pretty good living doing what they love in the minor leagues.
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The pay in the minor leagues is less than first year f/o pay, unless you are on the big league club's 40 man roster.

Yes I played Little League
Yes I played in college
Yes I was drafted by the Boston Red Sox
No, I never made it to the big Leagues.

I have friends who made it to the show, and its comparable to getting hired by a major. It's highly competitive and the jobs are sparse.
Now I'm stuck at my regional with nowhere to go and have been downgraded. I guess I should have had a little more passion for the game ;)
 
Say what you will of American Eagle, but its got to beat the living crap out of working unscheduled 135. :eek:
 
A regional airline like Skywest might be safer, at least for the very senior pilots, than any major airline if just due to the fact that they do flying for multiple carriers. Sure you have the possibility of losing a contract here or there, but if you're senior you are insulated from that for the most part.
 
SpiraMirabilis said:
A regional airline like Skywest might be safer, at least for the very senior pilots, than any major airline if just due to the fact that they do flying for multiple carriers. Sure you have the possibility of losing a contract here or there, but if you're senior you are insulated from that for the most part.
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98% of Skywests revenue comes from two companies. One which could anyday go bk.
 
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