American Eagle: A Career Airline

MikeD said:
Here's the problem though. Are regionals a "stepping stone" or not?
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Some are (mesa, colgan, great lakes), and some (eagle, rebublic, Xjet) are not.

The "Megaregionals" are places where you can make a career there. Clearly many of the captains at Eagle have done so. Pilots at these places need to focus on making their unintended home a fit place to live. The stability will help the health of the company which is good for the pilots as well.

The more traditional "comuters" flying small equipment and the bottom feeders where QOL is terrible will still be a "get in, get your time, get out" situiation.


There is a parallel situition over on the freight ramp. The UPS feeders pay poorly but have more chance to upgrade due to their steady turnover. The FedEx feeders make a good wage and don't move on untill they are forced to.
 
jtrain609 said:
AWAC is betting on Airway's financial health.

PSA is betting on Airway's financial health.

XJT is betting on Continental's financial health.

Skywest is betting on Delta/United's financial health.

Pinnacle is betting on Delta's financial health.

The only carrier that's really insulated is Republic.
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I'd even add Delta is betting on Delta's financial health.

US Airways is betting on US Airway's financial health.

United is betting on United's financial health.

Etc, etc. Pretty sure TWA, Pan Am and Eastern thought they were insulated, too. Basically, anywhere you are in the industry is a crap shoot. Some just have better odds than the others.
 
kellwolf said:
I'd even add Delta is betting on Delta's financial health.

US Airways is betting on US Airway's financial health.

United is betting on United's financial health.

Etc, etc. Pretty sure TWA, Pan Am and Eastern thought they were insulated, too. Basically, anywhere you are in the industry is a crap shoot. Some just have better odds than the others.
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True dat.

I think Republic is in the best position to weather nearly any storm. They have multiple income streams, plus one (or two, depending on how you look at things) mainline airlines that are insulated from a CPA being pulled somewhere else.
 
CFIscare said:
It is almost getting to the point where Republic is betting on Republic's financial health.
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That's an entirely different thread.

Watching a 'Regional' go 'Mainline' is an interesting concept.

Other than ExpressJet, anybody know of an airline that tried to launch itself as a brand, etc?
 
FlyI, remember that one?

Independence's problem was that they had no money coming in from a CPA and went toe to toe with United out of Dulles while using 50 seat CRJ's.

That didn't last long.
 
Firebird2XC said:
That's an entirely different thread.

Watching a 'Regional' go 'Mainline' is an interesting concept.

Other than ExpressJet, anybody know of an airline that tried to launch itself as a brand, etc?
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Independence Air, although you can't really compare that to either Republic or ExpressJet IMO.
 
CFIscare said:
D'oh, I guess I am too slow today.

Mesa and Go!
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Even with Go!, Mesa is funneling in revenues from agreements with US Airways, United and Delta (for now). If they lose Delta and US Airways cuts them back, I'd imagine Go! will probably not be far behind.
 
kellwolf said:
Even with Go!, Mesa is funneling in revenues from agreements with US Airways, United and Delta (for now). If they lose Delta and US Airways cuts them back, I'd imagine Go! will probably not be far behind.
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I agree, which probably means ExpressJet is the best comparison to Go!. (I hate having to add that !)

I think the Republic situation falls somewhere in between Go!/ExpressJet and Independence Air, where they have enough outside revenue to support their "branded" operation if it struggles, but if all of that outside revenue went away, I think it would be difficult to survive in the long run.

I think a comparison could even be made to all the "LCC's" that the legacy airlines have started; airlines such as Ted, Song, and Metrojet.
 
The only thing Mesa did right was smart enough to pick a market where they were not competing with any of their codeshare partners.
 
Trying to make a career at a regional airline is like playing Russian roulette. I can't help but think of the 10-year CMR captain in my AirTran newhire class that said he had every intention of staying at CMR for his entire career.....until he realized that they were no different than any other outsourced lift provider, and Delta was going to move flying around to the lowest bidder from now until eternity. Suddenly that "career regional" didn't look so appealing anymore.

Yes, all airline jobs are a little bit unstable, but the entire nature of the outsourced lift providers makes them incredibly unstable. Mainline managements have no desire to keep flying in the hands of a single regional, nor even a small group of them. They'd rather do as Delta has done, diversifying their lift. AMR is no exception. You can bet that their talks at the bargaining table with the APA are about the ability to increase their outsourcing, and the upcoming talks with EGL ALPA will certainly involve a lifting of the embargo on additional lift providers.

For someone over the age of 40, it makes sense to play the game of Russian roulette, because it's difficult to start over at the bottom of another seniority list when you've only got another 20-25 years. But if you're younger, I advise against making a career out of a regional.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I advise against making a career out of a regional.
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I don't see your carrier being much different. Remember I was furloughed from there in 1998. Shortly thereafter they outsourced a significant amount of flying to Air Wisconsin and Ryan International.

<shrug> Could happen anywhere I guess.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
I don't see your carrier being much different. Remember I was furloughed from there in 1998. Shortly thereafter they outsourced a significant amount of flying to Air Wisconsin and Ryan International.

<shrug> Could happen anywhere I guess.
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As you know, the difference is that we negotiate our scope language directly with the company that controls the flying. Flying only gets outsourced if we vote to allow it. Right now there are strict limits in our scope language, and I expect them to get stricter.

By contrast, a regional carrier gets whatever scraps are thrown to it. RFPs are sent out, and the carrier that's the lowest bidder (or at least in the bottom tier) gets the flying. Regional pilots don't negotiate directly with the mainline carrier that controls the flying.
 
Hootie said:
I will do whatever it takes to escape the regionals. Including leaving aviation.
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Right there w/ ya on that one!
Leaving aviation is far from my first choice.....but I will not rule it out. That being said, as long as I'm stuck at a regional (and make no mistake about it...being employed by a regional carrier is being stuck), I'm going to fight like hell to make it better for me and anyone to follow me.
 
Upgrade time there is more than 7 years. Where else are these guys going to get their 121 TPIC? that Is why they stay there.
 
hotice said:
Upgrade time there is more than 7 years. Where else are these guys going to get their 121 TPIC? that Is why they stay there.
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Not really.

In the last hiring wave, we had FOs bailing out left and right.

Some went places like NetJets and Continental. Turbine PIC? Not so much.

Others went places like foreign airlines.

That 121 TPIC isn't all it's cracked up to be. Where in the regs does it say that you have to have that to fly a transport airplane above a certain weight? Oh, right.
 
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