surreal1221
Well-Known Member
bahahaha
Oh goodness that's rich.
They just can't live with their decisions. Let us all know how this transpires.
American Eagle: A Career Airline
- Thread starter Firebird2XC
- Start date
bahahaha
Oh goodness that's rich.
They just can't live with their decisions. Let us all know how this transpires.
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
... oh yeah, and pretty much everything Zap Brannigan has said in this thread so far.
He's spot on, really.
Those interested in how the situation evolved to the current state might look at the thread link in my signature line.
It's a piece I wrote in August of 2008. "Regional Airline Pilots: Welcome To The Rest of Your Career"
Better make it a good one, eh?
He's spot on, really.
Those interested in how the situation evolved to the current state might look at the thread link in my signature line.
It's a piece I wrote in August of 2008. "Regional Airline Pilots: Welcome To The Rest of Your Career"
Better make it a good one, eh?
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
It's not really that funny, though it may seem that way.
The original 'Letter 3' timeline played out over a few years to five years time, approximately. Meanwhile, THIRTEEN years later, things have changed.
It's a highly controversial and divisive issue. To be unsympathetic to the pilots who were concerned about 'forced flow' when they've got kids in college and mortgages and everything else is a little callous.
One can argue that they 'should have been prepared for this!!' but as time passed and the issue became endlessly convoluted, it wasn't so simple.
... and even if they ARE prepared for it, it still comes down to money out of their pocket if the situation is as financially dire as some would say it is.
... and then there are all the pilots junior to those individuals. What about them?
It's complicated. It can seem funny in a dark sort of way, but I really don't think any of it is funny.
This sort if situation is the kind where you might not realize it, but it'll wind up in a book somewhere someday.
That's why a certain degree of decorum is always required- nobody might be looking right now, but history certainly will be later.
'Historical precedent' can make or break you in certain situations.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
I know. Not funny, but there is some comedic value in their reluctence.
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
LOL what changed in the past 10 years? Where do we start...
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Point taken. Er, wait. Are you referring to the industry as a whole or just your company?
I know the history of the AWAC group has been complicated, too. Do you think there was a single key event or trend?
subpilot
Squawking 7600
I just turned 33 and was hired at Eagle when I was 29. At the current upgrade timeline, I will not upgrade until around 38yo and then maybe be 40 by the time I had my 1000TPIC. At that time I will have 3 teenage kids and a mortgage so it would be a huge financial gamble to start over at another carrier to be on junior reserve and furlough fodder. If the floodgates open like some propose then maybe I will catch the wave but with the way it has been the past decade I prefer to keep my seniority and stability.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
The only way you will upgrade is if people leave or Eagle expands. Since I highly doubt Eagle will expand, what are the retirement projections? Does that allow you to upgrade in the next 5 years?
I really cannot imagine going to Eagle. You are essentially betting on American's financial health long term and betting that people will leave. In 2 years my company went from 2.5 year upgrade to 4.5 year upgrade and every day it gets longer, as there are no new upgrades happening. Barring any expansion of flying there really won't be any new upgrades for a long time.
I really cannot imagine going to Eagle. You are essentially betting on American's financial health long term and betting that people will leave. In 2 years my company went from 2.5 year upgrade to 4.5 year upgrade and every day it gets longer, as there are no new upgrades happening. Barring any expansion of flying there really won't be any new upgrades for a long time.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
AWAC is betting on Airway's financial health.
PSA is betting on Airway's financial health.
XJT is betting on Continental's financial health.
Skywest is betting on Delta/United's financial health.
Pinnacle is betting on Delta's financial health.
The only carrier that's really insulated is Republic.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
The companies yes but I don't think very many pilots are disillusioned to think they are or can be career companies. That's the difference between Eagle pilots and every one else.
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Eagle pilots that take a career stance are betting on AMR's financial health, yes. So are AA pilots. We're both wholly owned. What's the difference?
Ultimately I'm not looking at upgrade as a selling point of being here. People talk about 'upgrade' in terms of how few years it will take. Yet, we have many, many FOs and CAs that waited the better part of a decade to to upgrade. Many, many, FOs and CAs also bailed and went elsewhere.
Not to mention, due to the longevity of senior CAs, mandatory retirement is looming for some. The kind of movement in the seniority list is an odd blend of careerist and 'up and out' types. The end result is a blurred line. We're certainly no 'Captain mill', but we're certainly not AAA with it's never ending wait to upgrade.
Many pilots have already made a career out of Eagle- I've flown with a few Captains who've done exactly that.
Calling them delusional for taking the proverbial 'bird in hand' seems a bit skewed.
... and let's not turn this into a regional airline comparison-fest.
That's not the point of the thread. The point is to show that the paradigm is shifting. With the constant erosion of 'mainline' jobs, 'regional' growth, and other factors, more and more people are electing to stop playing the game and hunker down where they are.
That's a good thing in terms of being able to focus on improving the job description of airline pilot in general.
You're married. A home owner. Kids, right? Would you stay at AWAC if things were stable, and you were making CA wages... and jumping to the 'bigger and better' next thing didn't look so stable?
After a certain amount of time.. wouldn't you be inclined to 'ride that train until they kicked you off'?
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
Not really. My CASS code is AA, my pay check is the same as an AA pilot and I can be listed as crew on a AA flight.
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
As of now we are the only airline that can feed AA. We have no CBA with AA or AMR. (CHQ and TSA are leftover from TWA and AMR claims it would cost to much to drop them) .
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
Our contract with AA is not indefinite. That does not, however, have anything to do with AMR's 'financial health'.
It might be influenced based on AMR's interest in profitability, but that's unlikely. Due to the wholly owned nature of the operation, our inherent costs to AA as a subsidiary aren't as transparent as they seem. We don't cost as much as it might look, depending on who's talking about what.
Mind you, I'm not making the DeltaConnection-style assumption that 'being wholly owned is everything'. I'm just saying that we're the more cost effective growth vehicle at AMR, so doing away with us vs the AA side of the house doesn't make financial sense when compared to AA. That's the whole point, really, and why Eagle has become a career location.
Considering the long-believed concept of Eagle doing the bulk of domestic flying and AA doing domestic long haul and intercontinental flying as a business model, Eagle being cast off is unlikely.