American Airlines job fair

It has not been discussed but this does reveal the company's hand to some extent. They want the best they can get, unless you are a flow candidate. Flow candidates may not have the "resume" credentials of military pilots but AA will have time to evaluate these candidates over their history of training and work with the regional partners. "She said she had no way of looking up my records via PRIA, and that I'm an unknown." The flow program takes care of the "unknown" aspect of someone's background. It doesn't mean they are better than someone else, it just means they are a known quantity.

What is somewhat obscured by all of this is that the "flow" program is not so much a pilot qualification program as it is a "cost control" program. Parker has said in several "Crew News" meetings, (quarterly meetings in CLT and DFW at the training centers where those in recurrent or initial get free lunch and an opportunity for questions and answers), that this is designed to deal with the pilot shortage and give opportunities to those who want a full career in with a major airline.

A news report states the following:
It, (proposed contract), also is offering signing bonuses on date of signing and a promise that Envoy pilots will be able to flow to American Airlines new-hire classes as slots become available.

But it caps the number of annual steps in the pay rates. It freezes pay tables through 2016 and provides for only 1 percent annual raises for the next seven years. Pilots will have to pick up a greater percentage of their insurance premiums. Profit sharing will end.

What is not stated directly is that AA management feels it is unlikely that the AA wholly owned will face the type of cost pressure from pilot contracts that others might from their non-flow pilots. The current and future retirement numbers certainly lend at least some credence to Parker's plan.
 
Zapphod Beblebrox said:
It has not been discussed but this does reveal the company's hand to some extent. They want the best they can get, unless you are a flow candidate. Flow candidates may not have the "resume" credentials of military pilots but AA will have time to evaluate these candidates over their history of training and work with the regional partners. "She said she had no way of looking up my records via PRIA, and that I'm an unknown." The flow program takes care of the "unknown" aspect of someone's background. It doesn't mean they are better than someone else, it just means they are a known quantity.

What is somewhat obscured by all of this is that the "flow" program is not so much a pilot qualification program as it is a "cost control" program. Parker has said in several "Crew News" meetings, (quarterly meetings in CLT and DFW at the training centers where those in recurrent or initial get free lunch and an opportunity for questions and answers), that this is designed to deal with the pilot shortage and give opportunities to those who want a full career in with a major airline.

A news report states the following:
It, (proposed contract), also is offering signing bonuses on date of signing and a promise that Envoy pilots will be able to flow to American Airlines new-hire classes as slots become available.

But it caps the number of annual steps in the pay rates. It freezes pay tables through 2016 and provides for only 1 percent annual raises for the next seven years. Pilots will have to pick up a greater percentage of their insurance premiums. Profit sharing will end.

The current and future retirement numbers certainly lend credence to Parker's plan.
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You could be known to suck at any of the wholly owneds and still get to flow so i don’t see how being a “known quantity” makes a difference for the flows.
 
You could be known to suck at any of the wholly owneds and still get to flow so i don’t see how being a “known quantity” makes a difference for the flows. There is no "flow language" between APA and AA so I don't know what the acceptance performance criteria is. I suppose your analysis could be true. There is contractual language between ALPA and AA regarding overall pilot technical and employee performance including discipline areas like sick calls and other issues.

I know the contract language exists but I don't know what it is. Knowing AA management however I will bet that it is heavily weighted towards AA and their view of that pilots employment history and performance.
 
So talking to the Envoy captain was interesting. First, he asked why I was even talking to them. He said I should be talking to AA directly. We then talked about flows, etc, and when I asked if and when flows stopped, then what, and he said Envoy would never get another pilot. That's how they're surviving... his words. He acknowledged once the guarantees were done, there is no guarantee, but that the pilot pool would dry up overnight...
 
Zapphod Beblebrox said:
You could be known to suck at any of the wholly owneds and still get to flow so i don’t see how being a “known quantity” makes a difference for the flows. There is no "flow language" between APA and AA so I don't know what the acceptance performance criteria is. I suppose your analysis could be true. There is contractual language between ALPA and AA regarding overall pilot technical and employee performance including discipline areas like sick calls and other issues.

I know the contract language exists but I don't know what it is. Knowing AA management however I will bet that it is heavily weighted towards AA and their view of that pilots employment history and performance.
Click to expand...
A direct quote from the director of pilot recruitment..."it is highly encouraged if you don't get a call from AA to go to the wholly owned. Even if you fail the interview at AA, you will be an AA pilot due to flows." Or something very similar...
 
It would be very helpful to this discussion if an Envoy, PSA or Piedmont pilot would post the actual "flow" section language of the contract on this board.
 
I just looked at my notes and the other nugget is if you're not updating your app at least every 90 days, they assume you have another job and don't look at you. They said 5-6 thousand apps are updated at least every 90 days and that's what they assume is the actual "pilots looking for employment pool ". Just fyi...
 
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