Am I nuts?

[DE727UPS]

I commuted for 31 years. I'm surely biased as I knew nothing else. Commuting could be a challenge but it was very worth it, especially as I look back on it. Perhaps I was lucky in that schedules with 2 commutes a month were easy to find. If you are on a WB now but just loath jumpseating and the act of commuting, you might consider just buying a first class ticket each way and not grovel for a non-rev seat like everybody else. I think that would have cut the negatives of commuting down a lot for me. If you have 3 commutes a month, it's gonna cost you some money, but would suspect it would be way worth it in the long run.

 

[Flyinthrew]

I'm on team stay at SJI. Usually I am on the the other side, but in this case and place in time I don't think it makes much sense to move. You're only 4 hours by car from Detroit. My only real caveat is if you HATE the culture, then leave now. People who get stuck in a company they obviously hate because of our seniority based system are a giant turd in the punch bowl for the rest of us.

 

[phill1174]

Nope you’re not nuts. SJI is a good spot and a dream for me so my personal advice would be moving closer to base if you can swing it without sacrificing your relationship. If you’re not happy then that’s a different animal and it’s time to make the changes you need to. I got funny looks for thinking about a career change but only you know what’s good for you. Zap’s last sentence of his post is spot on.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

AS hosed me with the old switcharoo from the Airbus to the 737. I owned a house in the SF Bay Area. Gave notice at SkyWest after calling AS HR and the next day they called me and said your Airbus class is cancelled. After that I got a call from the AS system chief assuring me that I would be back in SFO by October of 2018 and I should take the first class I could. None of that happened and basically everyone was lying to me. So I just sold my house and moved to Seattle. It was super traumatic, unnecessary and completely weak of my employer to do that to me. I got on second year pay, sold my house and moved. I bought a new house 40 minutes from the airport. Best move I ever made. I just didn't get the honeymoon that other pilots did which again wasn't bad. I just learned about wolves in sheep's clothing early on.

Just move to a SJI base. Be a sniper. Wait for an opportunity with housing and execute your plan. Don't give up your seniority. SJI sounds like a great employer with a lot of bases. Find the one that works for you.

After your class cancelled, what happened then? They didn’t get you in the next available class? Or did you bypass Boeing classes to hold out for Airbus ones?

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

After your class cancelled, what happened then? They didn’t get you in the next available class? Or did you bypass Boeing classes to hold out for Airbus ones?

After my class was cancelled. I missed a phone call (holding short of 1L at SFO) and I did not get another class for 2 months. My friends in the same interview group who did pick up were given a February 737 class. It sucks that I lost 2 months of seniority. But what is worse is that I called AS to confirm I had a class, was told my class was happening and I gave SKYW 2 weeks notice. Then AS cancelled my class, the next day! I actually spoke with the same person who told me my class was definitely happening when I was told my Airbus class was cancelled. I asked her if she remembered speaking with me yesterday. She avoided the question and told me they would have more information for me at some other time.

 

[Maurus]

I never commuted for a long stretch of time till I made the move to SJI and for some reason it simply hasn't bothered me. You can get screwed from time to time but maybe we have different bid priorities or something. I bid more for time off so losing half a day here or there isn't as much of a loss for me.

That said, do realize that UA has been hiring nearly exactly the same as SJI. There are a ton of young pilots at UA that will stay ahead of you in seniority for most of your career at this point. UA does have hopes to become a mega airline but we wont know if that will actually work out due to many factors. Aircraft orders are not the same thing as actually having the aircraft on hand.

 

[Kingairer]

Thinking of switching majors after 2 years at SJI, am I nuts?

I've had a good time at SJI, but live in a UAL base (ORD). After 2 years the commute has lost its luster, and now that I've "made it" I've realized at the end of the day this is just a job, and being close to home and making my life less complicated is probably more important than a seniority number. In a perfect world I would've made the switch already, I'll turn 30 by the time I'd be hired, so I have time to make it back and just consider the two years a sunk cost.

I've been extremely fortunate with my timing, even though its only been two years at SJI, I'm already sitting at 75% in the company. With that, I don't worry about furloughs. For the last few years I feel like we've been on thin ice waiting for the next downturn. I have no interest in moving in base at SJI, long term career goals is WB flying, which I also just finally reached at my current shop. Am I nuts for thinking of leaving?

Hate to make another "what should I do" thread, hoping to get insight from those that have made the switch, and not so much a DAL vs UAL thread.

No way I'd leave. It doesnt sound like too deep of roots into Chicago other than you both like it. You can learn to like a lot of cities. MSP and DTW (You can be equally as miserably cold there as in chicago) both really close if you need to come back and visit family on occasions. Its a luxury to even be having this conversation, I wouldnt do it at all and I wouldnt commute for a city just because it has familiar bars and restaurants or whatever.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

You can learn to like a lot of cities.

Except for Dallas and Houston. Some places you just can’t learn to like.

 

[Roger Roger]

Except for Dallas and Houston. Some places you just can’t learn to like.

You just need to find a good church family there

 

[JordanD]

I think the last sentence is particularly poignant.

I left a place after 6 years (with fairly good seniority) because it wasn’t for me. I spent 6 years trying to convince myself it was— switching airplanes, bases, even an upgrade. At the end of the day, the pilot culture and perspective made me upset, disappointed, angry at times and often entirely underwhelmed. I got involved in an attempt to help point it in the right direction, but I suspect it never will. 32 more years to go, and it wasn’t worth it for me. I also commuted the entire time.

I gave up living in base for similar reasons to go elsewhere. I'm ultimately happier now even commuting, but time will always tell at the end of the water cannon salute in a few decades.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

You just need to find a good church family there

I’m 100% sure that’s not it.

 

[Roger Roger]

I’m 100% sure that’s not it.

(that was my attempt to be very stereotypically Texan)

 

[RORO]

I don't think its a bad idea to leave. Delta is a great company but nothing beats living in a base, especially when it's a city you want to live in.

Maybe someone at UAL can chime in with what seniority you'd finish your career there versus staying at DAL to help you evaluate what you're giving up.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

(that was my attempt to be very stereotypically Texan)

There is something to be said for having a community of whatever sort that regularly is happy to see you (and wonders where you are when they don’t), and so on. Indeed I’d say the decline of such community organizations is a huge structural social problem.

 

[ClearedForOption]

I know that it's been touched on above, but one of the biggest considerations that you need to look at is the seniority math - this hiring environment will not continue forever. Trust me. Also, at some point the great wave of legacy retirements will stop. (Right around 10ish years from now probably...) Then, the great stagnation sea will form and the music will have basically stopped for another generation. You need to be looking at the totality of your whole career, not just the short term.

For example, at my shop, I've moved up approx 300 #'s in the last 12 years. Our peak retirements don't happen until the legacies have slowed to a crawl. When everyone senior to you is younger than you... well... that's the stagnation ceiling.

The grass isn't always greener. I'll also say what I tell all the young dudes I fly with... don't listen to other pilots. What you need to do is talk to a no kidding real pilot career counselor who will talk to you and your spouse and help you do the math and identify those things that are actually important to you so that you can confidently know that you are on the right path.

 

[Flyinthrew]

When everyone senior to you is younger than you... well... that's the stagnation ceiling.

Well, I know basically what number I’ll finish at, but I guess I get to spend the rest of the night graphing the velocity of my seniority advancement, so…thanks for that, I guess.

 

[Kingairer]

I know that it's been touched on above, but one of the biggest considerations that you need to look at is the seniority math - this hiring environment will not continue forever. Trust me. Also, at some point the great wave of legacy retirements will stop. (Right around 10ish years from now probably...) Then, the great stagnation sea will form and the music will have basically stopped for another generation. You need to be looking at the totality of your whole career, not just the short term.

For example, at my shop, I've moved up approx 300 #'s in the last 12 years. Our peak retirements don't happen until the legacies have slowed to a crawl. When everyone senior to you is younger than you... well... that's the stagnation ceiling.

The grass isn't always greener. I'll also say what I tell all the young dudes I fly with... don't listen to other pilots. What you need to do is talk to a no kidding real pilot career counselor who will talk to you and your spouse and help you do the math and identify those things that are actually important to you so that you can confidently know that you are on the right path.

Great points, agree...I also will add, the number you retire at is important, but also take a look at where/if you stagnate for awhile. For example, if you end up retiring at 100, thats great, but if there is a large number senior to you, and just slightly older, that number can be quite skewed.

 

[ClearedForOption]

Well, I know basically what number I’ll finish at, but I guess I get to spend the rest of the night graphing the velocity of my seniority advancement, so…thanks for that, I guess.

Isn’t there some sort of online tool, a widget-like seniority calculator for instance that pilots have tried to monetize that’ll do the work for you?

I’m kind of a data freak and I tracked my own progression for the next 17-ish years until I retire, so that I can watch myself from now until then and have a much better idea of where I’m gonna be. Unfortunately I’m going to have to throw that all out with the SLI and start again.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Isn’t there some sort of online tool, a widget-like seniority calculator for instance that pilots have tried to monetize that’ll do the work for you?

The union has a free one. I don’t look at it.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

When you're graphing these seniority projections take them with a grain of salt. About every 8 years there's a black swan event that causes either stagnation, regression, or interruption (lengthy furloughs, bankruptcies, mergers). So those projections are interesting but I wouldn't put a ton of weight on them.

Best thing you can do is get to your destination as quickly as possible, and get as many people behind you as possible before the next black swan event.