ALPA Dues Refund

I remember last time you could go on the ALPA website and look up how much they were gonna send you. You guys seeing that this year yet?
 
nc1982 said:
I remember last time you could go on the ALPA website and look up how much they were gonna send you. You guys seeing that this year yet?
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I don’t think you can see the amount. What you can see is the ALPA dues collected in the past, including 2024. Login and under the Account tab. Then take that figure times .136 for a fairly good estimate.
 
So apparently that is AS MEC’s refund for 5 yrs, 2020-2024 inclusive. 5 yrs of refund portion is a huge amount!

Thank you ALPA. And now the National ALPA return of 13.6% for 2024 wages coming soon.
 
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Maybe I don’t subscribe to “pilot math” but if we got a significant refund last year, and another refund this year, maybe it’s time for less fanfare and more dues reductions moving forward?

Or are we just cooking the books, loaning the association free money and pretending to be fiscally responsible?

I mean, otherwise, we’re running around like Altima drivers doing the “end zone dance” about tax refunds from the IRS.
 
derg said:
Maybe I don’t subscribe to “pilot math” but if we got a significant refund last year, and another refund this year, maybe it’s time for less fanfare and more dues reductions moving forward?

Or are we just cooking the books, loaning the association free money and pretending to be fiscally responsible?

I mean, otherwise, we’re running around like Altima drivers doing the “end zone dance” about tax refunds from the IRS.
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Hella pilot math 🤣
 
derg said:
You know the “Do we get an airline discount on lightweight aviation headsets” types.

We are literally the sole demographic of consumers of the product, why are you expecting a… discount?! :)
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Being overcharged for something and then getting a few percent back could only make pilots happy.

I’d prefer we just hire professionals to negotiate our contracts. Rising all boat throughout the industry.
 
derg said:
Maybe I don’t subscribe to “pilot math” but if we got a significant refund last year, and another refund this year, maybe it’s time for less fanfare and more dues reductions moving forward?

Or are we just cooking the books, loaning the association free money and pretending to be fiscally responsible?

I mean, otherwise, we’re running around like Altima drivers doing the “end zone dance” about tax refunds from the IRS.
Click to expand...

I’m actually fine with it. Things are pretty good right now. The gains we got last contract cycle came relatively/comparatively easy. I don’t think it will be that easy this time around.

I’m totally cool giving the association an interest free loan for a year to give them the jump start needed to hit the ground running for this next cycle if things start turning sour.

I do get where you’re coming from, but an even worse look would be to decrease for a year, be behind the power curve, and then hit us with a rate jack shortly thereafter.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
I’d prefer we just hire professionals to negotiate our contracts.
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The amount of lawyers, SME, and support staff used in negotiating a contract is staggering. Take that from someone that’s been in the room.

You don’t need “professional” negotiators. You need a negotiating team that knows what the pilot group wants, is empowered by the MEC, and support staff to help with the legal/subject matter nuances.
 
jhugz said:
The amount of lawyers, SME, and support staff used in negotiating a contract is staggering. Take that from someone that’s been in the room.

You don’t need “professional” negotiators. You need a negotiating team that knows what the pilot group wants, is empowered by the MEC, and support staff to help with the legal/subject matter nuances.
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I’d prefer if pilots weren’t in the room at all. Pilots are idiots. In nearly every case of interacting with them for over 20 years. Pro negotiators using the same survey data would do a way better job. For example: on our last contract our negotiation committee simply didn’t realize the company wouldn’t use best industry scheduling practices. So there’s no limit or any kind of protection for circadian flips when on reserve.

Pretty sure a professional negotiator would have simply “game theoried” the company wouldn’t use best just do the worst thing imaginable + 15%.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
I’d prefer if pilots weren’t in the room at all. Pilots are idiots. In nearly every case of interacting with them for over 20 years. Pro negotiators using the same survey data would do a way better job. For example: on our last contract our negotiation committee simply didn’t realize the company wouldn’t use best industry scheduling practices. So there’s no limit or any kind of protection for circadian flips when on reserve.

Pretty sure a professional negotiator would have simply “game theoried” the company wouldn’t use best just do the worst thing imaginable + 15%.
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You are assuming a professional negotiator would have clue what circadian flips are. The wouldn't. Or if they knew what those were, they wouldn't understand the importance of separate hotel vans from the cabin crew, or why being able to put all your reserve days in a row is important, or how forcing large amount of vacation out of limited peak months increases vacation in desirable shoulder months.

I've worked with several Scope attorneys, which in the ALPA world are about as close to a professional negotiator as you can get, and while they are great at making sure the language is tight and everything says what the actual intent is, for the most part they are oblivious to the inner workings of how an specific airline operates, even on the scope side. Just like I laugh when people (who aren't Soviet Sub Commanders) say "let's just copy Delta's contract word for word", not having somebody involved who actually lives the day to day (and even more importantly does regular contract defense work between bargaining cycles, is really, really dumb.

ALPA's "chief negotiator" who just retired last year, was a staff attorney with almost 50 years of experience bargaining contracts in the airline and the recording artist industries. He'd be the first to tell you that his job was to guide the process and then get the hell out of the way and allow the pilot negotiators to sort out the details.

Sure your last NC missed protecting against circadian swaps on reserve (and probably a boatload of other things too, just like every NC does), but it's a process, and if you don't have the patience to wait one bargaining cycle to fix those things, and yet are willing to pocket all the things they did fix or improve for you last time around, you're in the wrong career.
 
derg said:
Maybe I don’t subscribe to “pilot math” but if we got a significant refund last year, and another refund this year, maybe it’s time for less fanfare and more dues reductions moving forward?

Or are we just cooking the books, loaning the association free money and pretending to be fiscally responsible?

I mean, otherwise, we’re running around like Altima drivers doing the “end zone dance” about tax refunds from the IRS.
Click to expand...


I’ve only been doing this gig since 2007 but since that time I’ve seen my dues go from 1.95% to 1.9% to (currently) 1.85%.



And what’s the slight on Altima drivers? :) For a while that was our sole car :)
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
I’d prefer if pilots weren’t in the room at all. Pilots are idiots. In nearly every case of interacting with them for over 20 years. Pro negotiators using the same survey data would do a way better job. For example: on our last contract our negotiation committee simply didn’t realize the company wouldn’t use best industry scheduling practices. So there’s no limit or any kind of protection for circadian flips when on reserve.

Pretty sure a professional negotiator would have simply “game theoried” the company wouldn’t use best just do the worst thing imaginable + 15%.
Click to expand...
Er, well, at the end of the day, pilots are going to fly whatever is negotiated, so lol at all of this
 
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