Allegiant Air's prudent ways help it soar

[Kingairer]

I get wanting to be home everynite. What i dont get is the fact that people on here celebrate this as "great management", but chose not to look at the fact that the pay is well below industry average for that type..not just a little. Was JO 'great managment' in bringing Mesa into its prime a few years back? They made money....I really dont care anymore, but you wont be seeing my resume there as long as the wages arent good enough to entice me, but im sure there will be plenty to jump all over it, even at their current wages...Sounds very similar to those we criticize for taking some regional jobs.

 

[Kingairer]

That's a good thought, but exactly who's hiring right now? And why would they want to hire you over a person that is furloughed from, well, pick a place, with around 10k and a few thousand widebody?

Not trying to pick on you, but the 1k turbopic and out is a dead animal for now, IMHO.

I read somewhere, maybe here, that there was only 78 pilots hired by the airlines last month, lower then November 2001.

 

[bafanguy]

What i dont get is the fact that people on here celebrate this as "great management"

I don't think that's what taken place here re Allegiant management. What I've taken from this thread is that this company came on the scene a few years ago and has quietly gone about the business of operating an airline, increasing market share, adding airplanes (and jobs ) and apparently getting people willing to work for the wages offered.

Does this mean they are "...great management..." ? Don't know since there is not much said about them publicly with little making it to av forums from pilot employees AFAIK. Come back in 25/30 years and we'll know more. This is a marathon not a sprint.

It took many years for SWA's management to emerge as "...great management...".

 

[WacoFan]

I get wanting to be home everynite. What i dont get is the fact that people on here celebrate this as "great management", but chose not to look at the fact that the pay is well below industry average for that type..not just a little. Was JO 'great managment' in bringing Mesa into its prime a few years back? They made money....I really dont care anymore, but you wont be seeing my resume there as long as the wages arent good enough to entice me, but im sure there will be plenty to jump all over it, even at their current wages...Sounds very similar to those we criticize for taking some regional jobs.

See my post above - ATN (The artist formerly known as PCL) clearly stated to me a couple different times that the CASM does not rise significantly even if you doubled the pilots pay. If it has no upward effect, there would be no downward effect either. So, this led me to the conclusion that pilot pay was not a dramatic player in the big scheme of things. I took PCL's word for it (he is honest and has seen the data), but if pilot pay is such a small player, then that clearly points to management for Allegiants successes, not what they pay their pilots.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

1k turbopic and out is a dead animal for now, IMHO.

Agreed 100%. 1000 TPIC in an RJ isn't enough to differentiate you from the competition nowadays. If you aren't a member of the "friends and family" program you're going to need considerably more experience and, presumably, some other attributes that differentiate you from the herd of RJ wondersticks all wearing the same blue suits with red ties and applying for the same jobs.

 

[kellwolf]

That's a good thought, but exactly who's hiring right now? And why would they want to hire you over a person that is furloughed from, well, pick a place, with around 10k and a few thousand widebody?

Not trying to pick on you, but the 1k turbopic and out is a dead animal for now, IMHO.

Yeah, I realize that, but that's what it says on the minimums. Like Zap said, unless you've got friends or family, you could have 5K and it would be the same as 1K. IMO, I'd rather go to Allegient with 1K than plug it out at 9E until SWA, jetBlue or Delta calls. 1K TPIC allows me to check a box, which is why I really don't want to leave here (given the rare opportunity) before I hit that mark. I was never under the impression that once I hit 1K TPIC I'd be getting calls.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Sounds very similar to those we criticize for taking some regional jobs.

"we" don't criticize them. Maybe you do.

 

[IrishSheepdog]

I'd rather go to Allegient with 1K than plug it out at 9E until SWA, jetBlue or Delta calls. 1K TPIC allows me to check a box, which is why I really don't want to leave here (given the rare opportunity) before I hit that mark.

No offense Steve, but I believe this is a major problem with our regional airlines. I'm not picking on you specifically, but what you said leads me into my argument.

My problem is not with Allegiant Air management. Rather, my problem is with the idea that it is OK they pay their pilots a maximum of $53 per month (source: airlinepilotcentral.com) to fly an MD-80, and many pilots at various regional airlines or freight carriers feel this is totally acceptable, simply because they allow you to be home every night.

I've been there, done that in terms of "let me reach 1000 PIC turbine, so I can get my resume out." I really believed I'd get a call somewhere, somehow, sometime. Now, I realize, that is totally not the case. Instead, it is going to take continued determination to realize my goals. You can equate this to the CFI who thinks, "let me get 1000 total time, I'll get hired at a regional." Are these opinions not one in the same? Just change the job and hours, and you have the SAME viewpoint.

I know most major airline jobs out there will require a pay cut for me in the first year. I just hope it won't require a pay cut for me in the second year, third year, or fourth year. God forbid it's a pay cut for me for my entire time as a first officer. That is the case with Allegiant.

You're not required to "get it". If you like being on the road all the time and making "bank", more power to you. I'd like to be at home a lot so I can drink a lot of beer and make my loved ones wish I were on the road a lot. To each their own, vive la differance etc etc.

The problem comes when guys who like being on the road and making a lot of money start claiming that guys who would rather be around the house being a horses ass and earning less are "assassinating the profession" or whatever.

You do your thing, I'll do mine. Presumably, we'll both be happy.

I personally don't like being on the road all the time, and I certainly don't "make bank." I do like being home to drink beer and my loved ones probably do wish I was on the road more some times. The point is, I want to be able to afford a comfortable quality of life, and as pilots we should demand more than $53 dollars per hour to fly 180 passengers around as a first officer.

Like I said, I do not like being on the road all the time. Far from it. However, it is my chosen profession. Rather than accept less than I am worth, I'd rather spend some time away from home to be able to achieve some major financial goals that myself and my family have. I just love how people get themselves all wrapped around the axle when some of us do not agree with the wages being offered at some "major" airlines.

 

[Velocipede]

Oh, and just don't ask Union pilots for jumpseats, either.

 

[Boris Badenov]

Wait, who's getting "wrapped around the axle"? I'm not worried about what you're doing or getting paid. Extend the same courtesy.

As to asking union pilots for jumpseats, it's a free country. I'll ask what I like of who I like. You are 100% free to say "no".

 

[Velocipede]

True. Just don't be surprised or offended if you're rejected.

 

[IrishSheepdog]

Wait, who's getting "wrapped around the axle"? I'm not worried about what you're doing or getting paid. Extend the same courtesy.

I'm not usually one to get in these discussions, but I am worried about what my fellow pilots are doing and what they are getting paid. Everything you do affects me, and everything I do affects you. It is how our industry (aviation at every level) works.

I am not one to start jumpseat wars, however. I feel there are much better ways to work out our differences.

 

[kellwolf]

Velo, the whole point of me going to Allegient is so I won't HAVE to ask you for a JS. We've been over this about five times already, and it's gettin' kind of old.

I'm not counting on someone calling me when I get 1000 TPIC. Like I said, it's just another box to check off. BUT if it comes down to staying at Pinnacle and being abused for 2-3 more years until someone calls me or going to Allegient, I'll take Allegient. I picked Pinnacle over XJT so I wouldn't have to commute, too. I guess that makes me one of the guys that's "bringing down the industry." If that's what everyone thinks, then fine. Those that think that obviously don't know me, my family, my situation, etc. Queue Velo's "picket line crossing" speech.

 

[jtrain609]

I'm not usually one to get in these discussions, but I am worried about what my fellow pilots are doing and what they are getting paid. Everything you do affects me, and everything I do affects you. It is how our industry (aviation at every level) works.

I am not one to start jumpseat wars, however. I feel there are much better ways to work out our differences.

Like the Wings v. Hawks game tomorrow.

"YOU'RE GONNA DIE CLOWN!"

 

[OldTownPilot]

Welcome back:whatever:

 

[Boris Badenov]

I'm not usually one to get in these discussions, but I am worried about what my fellow pilots are doing and what they are getting paid. Everything you do affects me, and everything I do affects you. It is how our industry (aviation at every level) works.

Yes, well, sauce for the goose my friend. If you can make an absolute determination of value based on a payscale, I can make an absolute determination of value based on a schedule. The problem, of course, is that they may not coincide. What's interesting is that you're prepared to condemn my preferences, but (one imagines) would not be so sanguine about yours being condemned and dismissed.

The only solution to this problem is for all of us to MYOFB.

 

[jtrain609]

Yes, well, sauce for the goose my friend. If you can make an absolute determination of value based on a payscale, I can make an absolute determination of value based on a schedule. The problem, of course, is that they may not coincide. What's interesting is that you're prepared to condemn my preferences, but (one imagines) would not be so sanguine about yours being condemned and dismissed.

The only solution to this problem is for all of us to MYOFB.

It'd be nice to MYOFB in this industry, but you can't.

When you roll into your chief pilots office and say, "Hey boss, you know I don't think we're gettin' paid that well, wanna renegotiate my salary?" and he responds with, "Why sure son! It looks like Allegiant is paying X percent less than we are for even larger equipment, so how about we reduce your salary to get in line with theirs?"

It makes it really hard to better yourself when others are willing to low ball other pilots. I.E. It's a race to the bottom.

 

[IrishSheepdog]

Yes, well, sauce for the goose my friend. If you can make an absolute determination of value based on a payscale, I can make an absolute determination of value based on a schedule. The problem, of course, is that they may not coincide. What's interesting is that you're prepared to condemn my preferences, but (one imagines) would not be so sanguine about yours being condemned and dismissed.

The only solution to this problem is for all of us to MYOFB.

I may have misspoke (mis-posted?), because I said paid. Therefore, you infer I am speaking about payrates only.

Let's take this a step further then. We have mentioned the pay at Allegiant, and the fact that they offer day trips in base. Are all lines day trips only? What are their work rules like? What do they offer in vacation and 401(k)? How about their minimum monthly guarantee for reserves? For lineholders? What about per diem? What is their trip trading policy? Do they have a computer based bidding system? Do they have PBS?

See, we have had many threads discussing the pilots who have decided to go to GoJets should have "done their homework" on the internet before choosing to go there. Well, personally, I have done my homework for Allegiant and found their pay and benefits to be very inadequate, regardless of their quarterly profits. I have done the same research you request of those who are interested in GoJets, Gulfstream, etcetra. Now, however, it seems since the airline in question is not a regional, and is making a profit in these trying times, those of us who question the decisions of those applying to this company are being told to MYOFB.

 

[amorris311]

this is why i like you matt. will you come speak to a large majority of our pilots who think that virgin amerika payrates are great and that they would go in a heartbeat.

 

[falconvalley]

Anybody else denying jumpseats just because the pilot doesn't have a union card? No? Ok.