Alaskan LOA offer

[BEEF SUPREME]

this is enraging to me, I'm sorry you're dealing with that.

It’s how things work and I’m on the board of the only .org trying to expand access to Federal land. I find it refreshing to hear that a Congressman didn’t know mountain biking wasn’t allowed in all but one National park.

We got to change awareness of a really big problem. That’s how problems eventually get fixed.


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[ppragman]

We got to change awareness of a really big problem. That’s how problems eventually get fixed.

Key word being "eventually."

I guess this is kind of the thesis of my other post, like, there's a reason we're not doing anything extraordinary anymore, and I don't think it's increased regulation...

I don't know, it is possible that I'm just a little grumpy about things after going to this conference a few weeks ago, it was great, I had a great time, but it's absolutely enraging to me that the sum total for fighting northern pike infestation in SC Alaska is something around $10m... that's so low.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Key word being "eventually."

I guess this is kind of the thesis of my other post, like, there's a reason we're not doing anything extraordinary anymore, and I don't think it's increased regulation...

I don't know, it is possible that I'm just a little grumpy about things after going to this conference a few weeks ago, it was great, I had a great time, but it's absolutely enraging to me that the sum total for fighting northern pike infestation in SC Alaska is something around $10m... that's so low.

Yeah. Don’t get me started about lobbying but it’s the way our country works. Sadly.


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[ppragman]

Yeah. Don’t get me started about lobbying but it’s the way our country works. Sadly.

I mean, we can change this stuff, there just have to be enough of us who want to - which is it's own problem, but I'm here for it.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Carpenters, architects, the heavy equipment operator who runs the bulldozer, the guy who digs the well, you know... people who like... design and build houses?

They’re just employees of various companies who are paid to do that. I mean, right?

 

[ppragman]

They’re just employees of various companies who are paid to do that. I mean, right?

right, but that doesn't mean their employer is "creating" the house unless they're out there swinging a hammer. Like I said, this could just be a semantic distinction, but, it's a bit like the guy who owns an Airline saying "I make flights happen," no - he owns the airplanes, and hires the people. He doesn't turn a prop without the help of his employees.

I feel like that distinction is really important.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

right, but that doesn't mean their employer is "creating" the house unless they're out there swinging a hammer. Like I said, this could just be a semantic distinction, but, it's a bit like the guy who owns an Airline saying "I make flights happen," no - he owns the airplanes, and hires the people. He doesn't turn a prop without the help of his employees.

I feel like that distinction is really important.

This is just semantics.

You could easily argue that employee doesn't make the flight happen because the boss owns the plane and pays for the fuel.

 

[BobDDuck]

In our system, rent extraction is a surefire way to make a decent buck and is a good way to set your family up for multiple generations to come,

It's really not. Sure, mostly what you read about are the Todders of the world playing Scrooge McDuck and sticking it to the little guys, but the reality is that the vast majority of rental units are single or maybe one of a handful of rental assets of the owner. They either pay a large percentage of their rental income (which may not be keeping up with the maintenance and insurance costs anyway) do take care of things, or they are the ones getting a call from one of the roommates when the other roommate disappears off the face of the earth and their parents say it's a good thing they disappeared because they were a useless • up anyway and now that first roommate can't afford the rent anymore on their own and has to move out two months after school starts (with the property being in a university rental area) so nobody is going to be interested in moving in for a while... hypothetically.

Our mortgage for the unit is about $1200 a month plus maintenance fees that were $350 when we bought it 8 years ago (as a primary residence) and are now pushing $700 month. Plus insurance. Plus upkeep. To "make a decent buck" we'd have to charge over $2800 a month for rent, and even the nicest units in the building (which our's isn't) aren't getting that much.

right, but that doesn't mean their employer is "creating" the house unless they're out there swinging a hammer. Like I said, this could just be a semantic distinction, but, it's a bit like the guy who owns an Airline saying "I make flights happen," no - he owns the airplanes, and hires the people. He doesn't turn a prop without the help of his employees.

I feel like that distinction is really important.

That's ridiculous. That's like shaming a parent for using premade ravioli when cooking dinner instead of making their own pasta shells and then filling them. Or ragging on the person that goes to Target to buy a sweater instead of buying a flock of sheep, shearing them, and then knitting their own sweater.

 

[ppragman]

That's ridiculous. That's like shaming a parent for using premade ravioli when cooking dinner instead of making their own pasta shells and then filling them. Or ragging on the person that goes to Target to buy a sweater instead of buying a flock of sheep, shearing them, and then knitting their own sweater.

is the CEO of your airline "making flights happen?" No, they own the equipment. You make flights happen. It's not shaming anyone, but, like, "word's mean things" - and I actually think we devalue the skills and experience of the people actually doing the real work of constructing the home when we say that the person renting the house out is "creating housing."

Our mortgage for the unit is about $1200 a month plus maintenance fees that were $350 when we bought it 8 years ago (as a primary residence) and are now pushing $700 month. Plus insurance. Plus upkeep. To "make a decent buck" we'd have to charge over $2800 a month for rent, and even the nicest units in the building (which our's isn't) aren't getting that much.

This depends on what you call "decent" right?
If you're making money on it at all it's pretty incredible - someone is literally paying down your mortgage.

It's really not. Sure, mostly what you read about are the Todders of the world playing Scrooge McDuck and sticking it to the little guys, but the reality is that the vast majority of rental units are single or maybe one of a handful of rental assets of the owner. They either pay a large percentage of their rental income (which may not be keeping up with the maintenance and insurance costs anyway) do take care of things, or they are the ones getting a call from one of the roommates when the other roommate disappears off the face of the earth and their parents say it's a good thing they disappeared because they were a useless • up anyway and now that first roommate can't afford the rent anymore on their own and has to move out two months after school starts (with the property being in a university rental area) so nobody is going to be interested in moving in for a while... hypothetically.

I mean, I have been a landlord for awhile, I'll probably be one again, I get the game. But let's be real, that's not the same as swinging a hammer, right, like if you want to accumulate capital, real estate is a really good way to do it. And if you're playing the long game, a low interest rate mortgage and enough money to afford the house even if there are no renters in it is an amazing strategy.

And it's definitely a way to set your family up for multiple generations. It really is. When the mortgage is paid off especially. You don't need to be Toddy-Cakes, and you need to have the disposable income to weather that sort of system shock, but it ain't like you're losing money is it? And someone is paying down your mortgage.

 

[ppragman]

This is just semantics.

You could easily argue that employee doesn't make the flight happen because the boss owns the plane and pays for the fuel.

Except for, you know, the person actually flies the flight right? Like, in the most direct way possible.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Except for, you know, the person actually flies the flight right? Like, in the most direct way possible.

It's still semantics. I make a flight happen? It's not my plane, not my fuel, not my maintenance that got the plane ready for that flight that day, not my ATC, runways, airport facilities, etc.

ANY of which could be removed from the equation and I could not make a flight happen. I'm just one of the puzzle pieces that is put together. In the largest/holistic overview though, my airline management makes the flight happen.

 

[///AMG]

Again, arguably, I get the semantic rabbit hole here but, yeah, renting out your spare bedroom or guest house isn't creating housing, it's "renting to someone." You can argue the merits of that or say we can/should change the way the system is (I can and I do) but part of "hating the player, not the game" involves recognizing what game is actually being played.

I agree that this is kind of an argument of semantics, at least on one side of the argument. One thing that is tangentially related, that I would also argue, is that the term "generational wealth" in the circumstances it has been used so commonly as of late, is a total pipe dream. People think that if they can just own a home, any home, that they suddenly have "generational wealth". They don't.

Also, just for the sake of the discussion, you can enter the home ownership game, sell, become a renter again, and then buy and come back to home ownership again. It isn't a one way check valve. I think there is an element of truth to the notion that people are being priced out of places, but are they being completely priced out (as in there are no homes), or are they just unable to own a home that is of the standard that they think they are owed? I'm not saying the market isn't crazy right now, but I also think people are putting a really obsessive emphasis on home ownership these days that I never really considered myself when I was their age. Like, both times we bought a house, I pretty much didn't want to buy a house at all.

 

[CoffeeIcePapers]

Actually, I'd argue that though the renter does not take on any debt to rent a house... they're assuredly taking on risk.

Landlords in many states can essentially raise rents with relative impunity - yes, there are complications, and you don't want to price yourself out of the market - but also... not being able to pay your bills and the bank repossessing your rental property is fundamentally different than getting booted from your home because the landlord increased rent and you can't afford it.

You ever heard of a lease?

 

[Hiboglossi]

Not denying what you said. I would just like to add, that homewowners throughout the decades have passed zoning laws or regulations that have hindered new construction. And it was done mostly with a NIMBY and greed perspective, to protect their own home values and ensure continual rising of property values.

Also to keep their neighborhood exactly the same as when they moved in and to keep away "undesirables".

 

[Hiboglossi]

I think there is an element of truth to the notion that people are being priced out of places, but are they being completely priced out (as in there are no homes), or are they just unable to own a home that is of the standard that they think they are owed? I'm not saying the market isn't crazy right now, but I also think people are putting a really obsessive emphasis on home ownership these days that I never really considered myself when I was their age. Like, both times we bought a house, I pretty much didn't want to buy a house at all.

Yes, they are. 2 years ago my then-employer closed my base and I looked into moving to the remaining bases and couldn't afford to even rent there. Didn't even look into buying because I knew it was completely unrealistic financially. The only apartments that were about the same price as what I was paying in New Jersey, if you looked up the address, you'd find reviews complaining of massive cockroach infestations. I'm sure some people would consider it a sense of entitlement not to want to live in squalor for even more rent than a decent apartment in New Jersey (which already has a reputation for being expensive). I'm lucky we can commute in this job- of we couldn't or if I had made even less than C5 was paying then I would have been completely screwed.

 

[///AMG]

Yes, they are. 2 years ago my then-employer closed my base and I looked into moving to the remaining bases and couldn't afford to even rent there. Didn't even look into buying because I knew it was completely unrealistic financially. The only apartments that were about the same price as what I was paying in New Jersey, if you looked up the address, you'd find reviews complaining of massive cockroach infestations. I'm sure some people would consider it a sense of entitlement not to want to live in squalor for even more rent than a decent apartment in New Jersey (which already has a reputation for being expensive). I'm lucky we can commute in this job- of we couldn't or if I had made even less than C5 was paying then I would have been completely screwed.

Yeah that is fair. And there are certainly more people today who just don't have the financial means to purchase a home in places where there are employment opportunities. The math of purchasing the median US home of $400k+ just doesn't work for many, including the median household. So there is that

 

[Roger Roger]

Well, I get zoning laws for some things - I don't want the chemical plant next to the apartment building (I'm looking at you Matanuska Susitna Burrough) but yah, we need to fix that stuff. But literally nobody listens in the least, or (at least in my case) I get screamed at for being a crazed-leftist or whatever, when I'm like, "hey look, we have science that shows how we could fix this problem."

@Roger Roger had a book I remember him telling me about or some article (can't remember, sorry dude) but about some of the fundamental causes of the housing crisis being related to the inability to actually build anything (sorry if I'm misremembering) because of things like zoning.

The book, paved paradise, is specifically about parking and how parking ruins cities, but that’s just a subset of how car-centric/low density design is a pyramid scheme and we can’t expand our way out of traffic congestion and expensive real estate. You gotta increase density, which means “ruining the character” of a lot of neighborhoods and investing in better transit infrastructure, both of which are anathema to a lot of people on all kinds of spots on the political spectrum. I mean every time flying in/out of SEA I’m amazed at how quickly outside of the city center it degrades into just an unending sea of single family homes and strip malls surrounded by acres of empty parking lots. Not to mention being a “liberal” city that has absolutely • public transit. IMHO Chicago’s level of service should be the bare basement minimum for any large city, much less one full of people who love to virtue signal about climate change from their hellacious suburban sprawl traffic jams

 

[Autothrust Blue]

So glad that the vast majority of millennials have to pay rent that's higher than a mortgage they "can't afford." Anyway.

strolls off humming La Marseillaise

 

[Autothrust Blue]

That's like shaming a parent for using premade ravioli when cooking dinner instead of making their own pasta shells and then filling them.

Just don't serve me something out of a box while pretending it's "fresh" and "handmade" and we're cool, k?

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

So glad that the vast majority of millennials have to pay rent that's higher than a mortgage they "can't afford." Anyway.

strolls off humming La Marseillaise

Paying rent is optional. Why not buy a new car instead? Only losers pay rent.