Yeah but I can’t imagine none of your work rules would’ve survived had your rates been on par. History has shown otherwise.
Alaska Hawaiian Merger?
- Thread starter BobDDuck
- Start date
milleR
Well-Known Member
Knowing nothing about any of this aside from what I’ve read here, if this is your main priority then why not downgrade to a senior FO? You’re clearly miserable as a junior captain, so if money isn’t the main driver and QOL is, then who cares which seat you’re sitting in to get what you want?
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Skåning
Well-Known Member
Which is it? Make up your mind.
Or is that like a PNW passive aggressive thing where you sulk and say what you don't mean?
We got two options here: open negotiations with just Alaskan that will have to be interrupted to negotiate a new joint contract with the Hawaiians OR take some more dough now and then negotiate jointly with the Hawaiians. Not a hard concept.
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All I know is he better downgrade the first chance he gets, oh wait, he also constantly complains about his fake impending forced downgrade.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
His personality doesn’t seem to come off as someone who can be FO again. No offense.
ASpilot2be
Qbicle seat warmer
There's way too much common sense in this post. I won't allow it.Which is it? Make up your mind.
Or is that like a PNW passive aggressive thing where you sulk and say what you don't mean?
We got two options here: open negotiations with just Alaskan that will have to be interrupted to negotiate a new joint contract with the Hawaiians OR take some more dough now and then negotiate jointly with the Hawaiians. Not a hard concept.
Skåning
Well-Known Member
Sorry, ya caught me in a moment of weakness. Back to my hole.
He'd be a 25% FO in SEA, in August that got guys 18/19 days off. First bid that comes out we should see his name on there, put up or shut up.
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BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
VX didn't officially have any work rules. There were some status quo rules protecting the procedures and policies they had in place as they got ready for their first Section 6, but there was nothing for them to (legally) bring to the table during a JCBA process. It didn't have anything to do with their pay rates.
///AMG
Well-Known Member
I'm not gonna blindly vote yes without reading about it, but seems like a pretty important concession to win. I don't have any frame of reference to make this statement, but I'm not holding my breath for the JCBA and this whole process to move on timeline. Just like the MEC stated in a recent release, this would differ from the VX merger because there is no arbitration backstop to force a timeline. There is gonna be a lot to negotiate, even just MEC to MEC. I'd think. I'll take a small good faith gesture from management that nobody knows where this is going, or when it is going there, and that it would be nice to not get left behind in the next round of contract negotiations. Like others have said, I feel like we might have more room to actually negotiate the important QOL things and maybe even visit other important stuff like long term disability, medical/HSA, etc, if we start out with a relatively competitive pay scale.
ShortField
No one of consequence
Holy buckets dude. This is a genuine question. Have you considered a leave of absence?
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
Do I need to, really?
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
Yes, this was done completely internal to the MEC and kept under wraps pretty well. Makes perfect sense to do this so all the negotiating power can go to the JCBA, I just don't think anyone saw it coming, even those who were focusing on the fact that our openers are coming up, with a looming JCBA also coming up.
Inverted
mmmmmm wine
You keep talking about this JCBA like we are simply adopting our CBA and forcing it onto the HA side. The JCBA is a negotiated contract, there is no binding arbitration and we can fix whatever the hell we want to fix. Stop complaining on JC and start writing your reps.
Autothrust Blue
PCU M/Y SPIRIT OF MELLIE
It’s not a new strategy. And it’s a good one.
I know a few thousand pilots who, even with the difficulties their respective employers currently face after the judicial veto of a merger transaction, are at least getting paid during the ensuing poop-snow.
Also I’m just gonna go ahead and say you don’t understand our contract, like at all if you think our vacation language isn’t vastly improved.Tell me about the contract 2022 sick time, disability insurance and vacation gainz bruh!
Keep in mind I'm going to bed for my 0345 van so I won't get to hear about my amazing gainz until tomorrow
Autothrust Blue
PCU M/Y SPIRIT OF MELLIE
This is not uncommon, sadly—my experience has been that pilots might understand a few corners of the Agreement (I'm talking like in the same depth of the people that administer the whole of the Agreement) because they've used it to their own personal advantage or because they've unfortunately needed Section-whatever-whatever-Exception-Note two.
Which is fine and I'm not here to throw rocks at it necessarily, and the reality is most pilots won't frequently be in situations that require a deep understanding of the esoteric or rarely-used. It's why we have the entire committee structure that administers the thing, and a communications apparatus that explains it, especially come TA/MEMRAT time.
It's also the beauty of a simple "deal" in a short time, too. "We aren't touching this; we surely want to right now. Here's your new rates and a few other sweeteners."
I'm not a 'take the money and run' person on average, @BEEF SUPREME but I have personally voted to send such a deal to MEMRAT with 'nice' (69%) results to reduce the 'lift' required during a JCBA scenario—or to cover my pilots whilst Ted, Robin & Co. failed in selling the place. We wrote honest letters to our membership that the 2023 deal was a 'right now' scenario. Was it perfect? Of course not. I wanted universal long call too and all of those other little bits.
But would I do it again?
You're goddamned right I would.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
That might not be the greatest example of a section to use. While the new language is certainly improved from the prior language, from a QOL and flexibility point of view it's pretty lacking. Out of all the sections, that and section 1 are the ones that I most hope flow over from the HAL PWA.
No I’m not saying it’s perfect, but under the new contract you can pretty easily turn 7 vacation days into 19 days off. That wasn’t even in the realm of possibility under the old rules (don’t get me started on having to build your credit back up in step trading after a trip/s was dropped for vacation touching). He’s saying there were no improvements made. The new language is worlds better than the old.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
(I had a long post on this written out, and decided to cut it to the crux and see if I need to explain further later.)
You raise a relevant point that I'm going to risk a thread tangent on, because I hear a lot of guys like you with union experience lamenting that the rank and file on the line doesn't really understand the contract.
If the state of the pilot group's contract comprehension is lamentable, there are probably some very good reasons why, and they don't completely lie with the pilot group.