Alaska Hawaiian Merger Serious Version

Autothrust Blue said:
Nobody has really been able to suss out what “fair and equitable” means in this context, no?
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It's been pretty well sussed out, it just takes some research that doesn't involve pilot forums to find the answer.

The uniquely important role seniority systems play in the airline industry is illustrated by the McCaskill Bond Amendment, part of the Consolidated Appropriations Act of 2008. See 49 U.S.C.§ 42112 note. Airline mergers necessarily require the integration of the employee seniority lists of the merging carriers. Since its enactment in 2008, McCaskill Bond mandates that seniority lists of merged airlines be integrated in a “fair and equitable manner”—e.g.,employees of the acquired airline may not simply be stapled to the bottom of the acquiring airline’s seniority list. Id. In enacting McCaskill-Bond, Congress recognized that ensuring the fairness of the seniority integration process was vital to protecting the smooth functioning of air transportation against the destabilizing effect of wholesale changes to employee seniority.
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This is, of course, an amicus brief, but the citation still stands.

The Teamsters have provided additional color on the subject:

When considering airline seniority cases involving specific mergers and various crafts and classes of employees, arbitrators frequently consider the following approaches or methods that advocate for one or more of the parties involved in the arbitration:

1. The surviving group principle, where the acquiring company’s employees receive seniority preference over the acquired employees;
2. The follow-the-work-principle, were seniority is allocated by a ratio of what assets each individual airline contributed to the combined company;
3. The absolute-rank principle, where employees retain their respective rank on the newly merged seniority list;
4. The ratio-rank principle, where a ratio of the employees of each group to be merged are assigned places on the combined seniority list according to a ratio of total employees;
5. The length-of-service principle, where all employees are combined by their current seniority date, regardless of which airline they work for today.

These methods are described in the book, How Arbitration Works (Sixth Edition Elkouri, Reuban; BNA Books).
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The truth is there are (thankfully) few non union airlines in the United States today, and as such, protections have already been negotiated ahead of time.
 
jtrain609 said:
It's been pretty well sussed out, it just takes some research that doesn't involve pilot forums to find the answer.




This is, of course, an amicus brief, but the citation still stands.

The Teamsters have provided additional color on the subject:




The truth is there are (thankfully) few non union airlines in the United States today, and as such, protections have already been negotiated ahead of time.
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Cherokee_Cruiser said:
@Roger Roger I couldn’t snag a trip with you, but I got a 2-day trip with @JDean3204 this weekend. I got my probie report ready to go son!


Oh darn, yall aren’t on probation anymore. Well I’ll still fill out a probie form just for kicks ;)
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Right on, I’ll be the dude with the helmet on and SpongeBob on my suitcase. Want me to bring you a PB&J? My mom makes the best PB&J’s
 
word302 said:
Well, that’s just like, your opinion man. Seriously though, the guy loves to turn everything into doom and gloom. Did anyone think things weren’t going to change?
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I never said it was doom and gloom. I think it’s a good idea considering how long we are going to have to wait for 737s. Might as well capture a little market share during a time of peak demand with what sounds like an under utilized aircraft.
 
I’m probably just ignorant, but I would just assume that wide body international/oceanic flying is always redeye flying. No?

Or do you mean that they are thinking about throwing the 330 onto the GEG turns? Maybe Narita-SeaTac redeye, day sleep, SEA-GEG-SEA victory lap. Think of how many Spokane commuters they could grab with that!
 
///AMG said:
I’m probably just ignorant, but I would just assume that wide body international/oceanic flying is always redeye flying. No?
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It's not always. We do plenty of Day/Day Hawaii to West Coast flights, and every once in a while do a Day/Day long haul turn. Mostly though, anything over 9 hours is going to touch WOCL on one of the directions.
 
BobDDuck said:
It's not always. We do plenty of Day/Day Hawaii to West Coast flights, and every once in a while do a Day/Day long haul turn. Mostly though, anything over 9 hours is going to touch WOCL on one of the directions.
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Yeah long haul >8 hrs is more what I meant with my statement/question. Hadn't thought about the islands/west coast turns, though I guess I knew you guys did that.
 
Hiboglossi said:
Who cares if it's an EMB-145 if you're being paid legacy rates and working under a contract with legacy work rules? It would still be one of the top jobs on the planet*. And my understanding is that plenty of pilots at the legacies currently fly 4 or 5 legs a day on the 737, A320, 717 or A220.

*And that's why pilot recruitment is a complete non-issue for the legacies anyway, and always will be. The majors probably all have more pilot applications on file than they could hire in a century, especially now that pilot hiring has slowed down so much. And even if pilot recruitment were an issue I don't see why it would be the union's responsibility to solve it.
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Alaska wont bring regional planes in and pay them mainline rates. That's not how AS operates.
 
blee256 said:
Alaska wont bring regional planes in and pay them mainline rates. That's not how AS operates.
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I don't think that's how any airline with outsourced regional feed would consider operating. Not without a fight at least. Which is why I said above that the fantasy people have of Comairing Horizon; kicking all the QX employees out onto the street; and bringing the flying in-house, rather than redistributing it to SkyWest or another regional, is just that, a fantasy.

I suppose it's slightly more realistic than the fantasy I've seen in this thread, of Comairing Horizon, kicking all the QX employees onto the street, parking Horizon's fleet, and bringing the flying in house using 737s on EMB-175 routes. 737s that Boeing isn't even building right now- not to sound like @BEEF SUPREME . Alaska used to operate the 737-200 and -400, I suppose there might be some airworthy ones parked somewhere they could buy, and reintroduce them to the fleet to do the flying Horizon currently does.
 
Hiboglossi said:
I don't think that's how any airline with outsourced regional feed would consider operating. Not without a fight at least. Which is why I said above that the fantasy people have of Comairing Horizon; kicking all the QX employees out onto the street; and bringing the flying in-house, rather than redistributing it to SkyWest or another regional, is just that, a fantasy.

I suppose it's slightly more realistic than the fantasy I've seen in this thread, of Comairing Horizon, kicking all the QX employees onto the street, parking Horizon's fleet, and bringing the flying in house using 737s on EMB-175 routes. 737s that Boeing isn't even building right now- not to sound like @BEEF SUPREME . Alaska used to operate the 737-200 and -400, I suppose there might be some airworthy ones parked somewhere they could buy, and reintroduce them to the fleet to do the flying Horizon currently does.
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Rebirth of the Q400!
 
Hiboglossi said:
I don't think that's how any airline with outsourced regional feed would consider operating. Not without a fight at least. Which is why I said above that the fantasy people have of Comairing Horizon; kicking all the QX employees out onto the street; and bringing the flying in-house, rather than redistributing it to SkyWest or another regional, is just that, a fantasy.

I suppose it's slightly more realistic than the fantasy I've seen in this thread, of Comairing Horizon, kicking all the QX employees onto the street, parking Horizon's fleet, and bringing the flying in house using 737s on EMB-175 routes. 737s that Boeing isn't even building right now- not to sound like @BEEF SUPREME . Alaska used to operate the 737-200 and -400, I suppose there might be some airworthy ones parked somewhere they could buy, and reintroduce them to the fleet to do the flying Horizon currently does.
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You don’t want to sound like someone who is pointing out an obvious glaring problem that will affect all of our careers?

Come on it’s not like the wonderful JC community would ridicule you for just bringing up a concern based on facts. They are all open minded, free thinkers. No one could criticize you for that.

Oh wait…
 
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