Alaska BNA-SEA takeoff abort

Cherokee_Cruiser said:
More likely to pass mergers. And at this point, mergers are needed among JetBlue, Spirit, Frontier, and Allegiant.
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Are they though? Do we need those airlines to merge? Does it matter if they merge or disappear? Not trying to be cold but do we really need them, and do we need them to merge?

We didn't NEED AS and HA to merge necessarily. Growth for AS and stepping in to grab an airline in need of some financial help isn't really a need for the industry. Public need? Maybe at best...
 
Inverted said:
We didn't NEED AS and HA to merge necessarily. Growth for AS and stepping in to grab an airline in need of some financial help isn't really a need for the industry. Public need? Maybe at best...
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Anyone who actually thinks JetBlue-Spirit was going to be good for the consumer was either in the JetBlue C-suite or Blue Juice-intoxicated. That would be why it was blocked, for the umpteenth time (not at you, necessarily). Frontier-Spirit would have been a formidable combination, even with the struggles now present in the ULCC segment.

I dunno, the fund overlords are gonna do their thing and the rest of us will sort it out, and so on. But I don't buy for a second that a less competitive industry is ipso facto a good thing.

(I get really uncomfortable when I'm the most capitalist one in the room.)
 
On my first day of indoc, the instructor threw up a slide that showed our position in the industry 20 years ago, followed by the next slide that shows our place now. He asked "what happened?" (as we moved from #17 or something, to 5-6 today). Since I had done my homework before I joined this industry, I blurted out "we survived". And that was the correct answer for 500. Who knows what this industry will look like in 10 years, but I doubt we will be arguing about at least one or two of these airlines anymore. My own included in that list of course.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Anyone who actually thinks JetBlue-Spirit was going to be good for the consumer was either in the JetBlue C-suite or Blue Juice-intoxicated. That would be why it was blocked, for the umpteenth time (not at you, necessarily). Frontier-Spirit would have been a formidable combination, even with the struggles now present in the ULCC segment.

I dunno, the fund overlords are gonna do their thing and the rest of us will sort it out, and so on. But I don't buy for a second that a less competitive industry is ipso facto a good thing.

(I get really uncomfortable when I'm the most capitalist one in the room.)
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Why would it not be good? Be specific.


As it stands, Spirit’s ULCC structure (what the DOJ said they were trying to save, an ULCC for the consumer) is dead.
 
Inverted said:
Are they though? Do we need those airlines to merge? Does it matter if they merge or disappear? Not trying to be cold but do we really need them, and do we need them to merge?

We didn't NEED AS and HA to merge necessarily. Growth for AS and stepping in to grab an airline in need of some financial help isn't really a need for the industry. Public need? Maybe at best...
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Yes they need to merge. The government allowed 4 airlines to become monstrous entities that control 85% of the country. The rest of the 15% can’t be fought over by 6-7 different airlines, each controlling only slim pickings. Consolidation is key. Consumers will do just fine with 4 mega carriers and 4 national majors. That’s 8, plus smaller/boutique offerings like Breeze, Avelo.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Anyone who actually thinks JetBlue-Spirit was going to be good for the consumer was either in the JetBlue C-suite or Blue Juice-intoxicated. That would be why it was blocked, for the umpteenth time (not at you, necessarily). Frontier-Spirit would have been a formidable combination, even with the struggles now present in the ULCC segment.

I dunno, the fund overlords are gonna do their thing and the rest of us will sort it out, and so on. But I don't buy for a second that a less competitive industry is ipso facto a good thing.

(I get really uncomfortable when I'm the most capitalist one in the room.)
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Not a single merger that created the mega carriers we have today have been good for the consumer, but they were allowed to happen anyway.

The DOJ either needs to let mergers continue to happen, or they need to start breaking up the monopolies that exist today.

Instead, the DOJ has decided to pick winners and losers, which is anti-capitalist.

I, for one, would be happy to see Northwest back.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Yes they need to merge. The government allowed 4 airlines to become monstrous entities that control 85% of the country. The rest of the 15% can’t be fought over by 6-7 different airlines, each controlling only slim pickings. Consolidation is key. Consumers will do just fine with 4 mega carriers and 4 national majors. That’s 8, plus smaller/boutique offerings like Breeze, Avelo.
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You’re also talking about minimal impact if they don’t. If Spirit closes its doors tomorrow, the needle of impact l travel will barely move. Somebody will absorb that flying or they won’t.
 
Break all of them up. Good for everyone except shareholders. While we’re at it, break up google, apple, meta, Walmart, Kroger, the big 3 automakers, Home Depot, Lowe’s, Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, everything. Way back in the teddy Roosevelt days we used to believe in antitrust law, let’s get back to it. Anything where a handful of businesses are able to control the national market for an essential good or service, break it up.
 
Roger Roger said:
Break all of them up. Good for everyone except shareholders. While we’re at it, break up google, apple, meta, Walmart, Kroger, the big 3 automakers, Home Depot, Lowe’s, Verizon, AT&T, T-Mobile, everything. Way back in the teddy Roosevelt days we used to believe in antitrust law, let’s get back to it. Anything where a handful of businesses are able to control the national market for an essential good or service, break it up.
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Im not so sure it is good for everyone. Have we forgotten the total instability of the airline industry after de-regulation? Id prefer to not have to start over at 3 of 4 airlines in one career as airlines go bankrupt.
 
Kingairer said:
Im not so sure it is good for everyone. Have we forgotten the total instability of the airline industry after de-regulation? Id prefer to not have to start over at 3 of 4 airlines in one career as airlines go bankrupt.
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Good point, for anything that’s essential infrastructure like airlines and telecom/internet, they should be nationalized or at least regulated. But in general, near monopolies are worse for employees because bigger operations are more efficient staffing wise meaning fewer jobs.
 
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Something in that boxed water, I swear.
 
I think consolidation is good when the industry calls for it. Spirit crapping its pants has very little to do with them not having any passengers to fly. There still needs to be enough competition in the market to drive the industry. If everything is gobbled up there really is no competition. Even though the top 3 have such a huge market share, domestically they very much feel the pressure from the smaller airlines
 
Inverted said:
I think consolidation is good when the industry calls for it. Spirit crapping its pants has very little to do with them not having any passengers to fly.
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Maybe now it's obvious with hindsight, but with costs all the same (crews, planes, gas, airport fees, etc.) how do they get costs low enough to justify the $19 fares and still make money?
 
Skåning said:
Maybe now it's obvious with hindsight, but with costs all the same (crews, planes, gas, airport fees, etc.) how do they get costs low enough to justify the $19 fares and still make money?
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They only sell a few seats at $19. It's all a marketing ploy. They make a crazy amount off onboard sales and fees.
 
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