AirlineApps: “Why Haven’t I Heard Anything”
- Thread starter derg
- Start date
jhugz
Well-Known Member
What about an “efficient” pilot?
Ask me about my single engine taxi rates, APU usage, and fuel adds. I’m just really glad we don’t have the percentile app like Delta has.
How is that any different than anything else discussed on JC? Would you rather have Beef and CC turn this into one of their 15 Alaska threads? Or the nonstop political asshattery in the lav? At least this way we’re talking about the career and hopefully trying to help someone with theirs if they’ll ever listen.
ClearedForOption
Displaced... again.
I was hoping that this thread - with some fun thrown in - would be talking about things like:
- Experience levels - and correlating recent hiring ('21-'23) with historical hiring "norms". Where the industry has been, where it's going. How to temper and understand the cyclical nature of the career. (and how the overall predictive economic triggers diverged back in like '18-ish)
- Retirement rates and growth and what that is going to do for industry movement. Both at the regional level and Majors... and how the different career pathways are going to affect where people land. (and how this is the same/different as the flight farms and mom & pop shops that promised us the world in the late 90's/early '00's)
- Application pitfalls - from leveraging life experience out of the flight deck, networking, interview techniques, what to do when you get 5 minutes with the recruiters.
- Mentorship - from both sides. How to be a good mentor. (or mentee) The right questions to ask, stories to tell, how to give advice without telling people what to do. How not to get frustrated when you aren't speaking the same language or when expectations aren't in sync with reality. How to get more involved in mentoring younger/newer pilots.
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
I think any discussion regarding people starting in the industry needs to include the reality that they shouldn’t count on doing this until 65. I’ll be shocked if I do.
Kingairer
'Tiger Team' Member
Also don’t be shocked if you’re allowed to do it until age 67+. (I think raising the retirement age is going to continue to be a threat)
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
Oh, I don’t think anyone not in the industry now will work to 67. Maybe some of us will depending when and if they go single pilot for a while before full automation, but for a 20-some just getting started? No chance.
Karnage
I-am-a-pirate. I do not need credentials!
21 years left and I think that too, though it could just be the repetitive frozen Midwest overnights. I have got to start kneecapping pilots senior to me to get better trips…
🦈💜
Well-Known Member
In my opinion, we also need to be honest with career aspirants that the whole "my neighbor thinks I'm unemployed" meme is not representative. That travel benefits won't really be usable until you're quite senior. That we don't work "half the month," and so on. That pay is only decent if you make it to the end game, and that luck plays a huge part in that.
I've flown with a lot of disillusioned, struggling FOs over the past year. They're not upset that they haven't made it to mainline (unlike the year prior)—they're upset at how they're being treated by the company, how they feel the whole career is a bait-and-switch, and how people think they're making a lot, but they're struggling to make ends meet.
I've flown with at least half a dozen who have said that they're trying to get right back out again.
I've flown with a lot of disillusioned, struggling FOs over the past year. They're not upset that they haven't made it to mainline (unlike the year prior)—they're upset at how they're being treated by the company, how they feel the whole career is a bait-and-switch, and how people think they're making a lot, but they're struggling to make ends meet.
I've flown with at least half a dozen who have said that they're trying to get right back out again.
jhugz
Well-Known Member
ppragman
No pasa nada.
Yeah, my masters was basically in CS and I liked the content because it was mostly all AI tailored and my courses were all directly interesting and applicable to my research? But "algorithms and data structures" is not a super interesting topic. Like, "oh, you can learn the basics in 40 minutes then if you needed it you'd call a library that some genius implemented 22 years ago."
Personally, I'm just taking some random EE classes because I want to know more about lower level stuff, I've got a theory class that I somehow didn't take along the way that will be a more formal introduction to things I already feel pretty comfy with but I want to fill in any gaps in knowledge and a class on programming microcontrollers and designing embedded systems so I can build some tooling I wanted to build. It is the first week, so not much yet but it's pretty fun.
ppragman
No pasa nada.
Again, medevac...
One time my in laws came to visit us in Hawaii. I was on nights, so other than going down at 6:30pm to check the flight can and calling into ops I didn't get called a single time. I basically got paid to hang out with my family during that week. I mean, I could have been elbows and • that whole time. But I got lucky that time and didn't do •. My strategy was always on nights to go to bed at 715pm when I got home from the airplane, if I get called out before midnight I'd had a catnap, if I got called after midnight, I'd gotten enough sleep to function pretty well and if I was zonked I usually could take a break in the crew room while I waited for the medcrew to get back from the hospital (ymmv, sometimes the pilot has to go to the hospital too, depends) then usually I would commit to the schedule and mostly sleep during the day during that shift. If I got called after 2am I was basically fine and I'd just stay awake to 7pm the following night with maybe a nap if it was a hard night with multiple transfers, etc.
A few times I ended up getting a week where I just got slammed, but I was usually "fine" I just listened to my body and when you get slammed a couple nights, you just accept it, switch to being asleep during the day and being nocturnal.
I was always able to happily bid nights at the job because nobody else wanted them, I worked something like 20 nights a month? But only averaged something like 12 unless I picked up extra shifts? That means for at least 8 days a month on average I mostly got paid to hangout at home and read.
A few times things got really busy? But that was abnormal, and you just rolled with it - the work was super rewarding anyway though not glamorous.
phill1174
Well-Known Member
I would hope that many people are honest when asked about this career or someone’s company. I’ll tailor my response depending on who’s asking. Me doing a school visit will be different from a “what’s UPS like response?” from someone who’s in the industry.
A lot of those QOL things you mentioned depends on where you are within your company and the individual . As much as I as I gripe about shenanigans here I’m at a point where I’m able to turn 1 week of vacation into a month. The money isn’t bad but I’m also in a DINK household. I do work half a month albeit night flying will kick your ass and sit it on a plate in front of you.
I’m not a sit back and take it person. If things suck do what you can to change the situation but the bottom line is this industry isn’t for everybody.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Yeah, I just did an algorithms class, first one in 20+ years. Libraries have gotten a lot better in that time, and they definitely make things easier. This was a comparison of two implementations, with evidence of the difference and why. My poorly optimized C++ code ran 100x faster than the Java version, consuming 1/200th the memory. This was a heap vs. nested loop shortest path, btw. Being able to formally analyze time and space complexity is still important. Just maybe not as much as it was day to day, 30 years ago.
Discrete and Continuous time signals is fun. And all of the RF stuff is like magic. This is one of my favorites (covers more than just antennas) Antenna Physics: An Introduction 2nd Edition
CoffeeIcePapers
Well-Hung Member
Literally none of that is true. Regional FOs start at 6 figures and CA pay is in the 200s. I just had an Envoy JS who was making 238/hr. People travel all over the world as junior regional pukes, lots of times in business class. Schedule is what your seniority can hold, but it’s a seniority based business.
drunkenbeagle
Gang Member
Coming from the sales world, it has seemed a lot like cold calling to me. As in, I usually don't know who they are or what they are looking for. So I try to ask questions about them first. And people usually like to talk about themselves. Seems low risk, as the events I've been to in the last few years they haven't been hiring anyway.
But yeah, I'm all ears for advice to move past the "you look like a great fit, I'll write a note on your CV, good luck if we are ever hiring again..."
Autothrust Blue
”…trusting ze process…”
I tell my planner that I want to be two bad trips in a row away from going "you know what? frak all of this" and retiring. I don't know that it'll happen, even with no kids, but it's fun to think about.
Ah, they've figured out they work for a regional, that it will be a much more extended stay than the people immediately before them, and that nobody (either SAPA or the Company, though they are the same thing) is actively trying to make OO a better place to work. In which your FOs win the "Will Smith Welcome To Earth™" award.
Mmmmmmmbeer.
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I used to think I complained a lot (and I do), but I dunno what it would take for me to have a trip THAT bad.
Autothrust Blue
”…trusting ze process…”
Yeah. I dunno, my second charter mess in November and the 5 day becoming a 7+ day came close.
Like, 71 hours on the beach was great (you are familiar with why), but I really just wanted to go home instead, and while I was thinking about it all I realized that it didn't matter to me that I was on the beach (and I had a great time too), I just wanted to go home and sit with my cat and my fiancee.