Airline Pilot in Congress!

[SIUav8er]

I dont care if Chuck Yeager hiself was a Democrat, i wouldnt vote for him...

Supply side economics are what works. help the rich, the restof the country prospers. Help the poor screw the rich, everone looses. Tax breaks for corporations and wealthy people brings capital into the economy. Welfare for the poor does nothing. How many people or companies have you worked for made less than $250,000 a year? probably none

 

[JoelT]

Ok, gotta ask. How does that work? Good standing, but still on the list? The irony of that is very interesting, considering how scabs are viewed within the whole airline biz.

I'd think that'd be a Pandora's box of sorts.....others considered scabs wondering why they ca't be forgiven. This wasn't a sacrifice of the "core-beliefs" just to get back on property, was it?

Alright, let's see if I can explain this concisely. I could explain this much better if we were talking face to face because I am an absolutely awful writer.

So, I was a part of the ALPA organizing drive at CAL/CALEX in 2000/2001. Before I go further first I need to give some background. 1983 there was a strike at CAL. In 1985 ALPA was busted by Lorenzo. ALL CAL pilots were scabs until the Order and Award that happened in the late 80's when the Full Term Strikers were brought back on property. That entailed a very messy senority integration.

The minute after the Order and Award the Full Term Strikers were trying to bring ALPA back on property but, they were outnumbered by scabs. Well, eventually even the scabs realized that Lorenzo was not their friend. They began to think that the Strikers might know what they are talking about and maybe a Union is needed. They tried to bring ALPA back but a large contingent of scabs did not want them so, the CAL pilots did the only thing they could do. They started the IACP (Independant Assoc of CAL Pilots) in 1993.

So, when the IACP was formed ALL CAL pilots were members in good standing (of course). So, it is now 2000 and those Strikers and now the CALEX pilots (who were also part of IACP) want ALPA on property. To do that they needed a vote of ALL MEMBERS IN GOOD STANDING (that means everyone). If the scabs were not allowed to join ALPA then they were certain to vote NO. So, they had to be "forgiven" in order for the greater good. At the time there were 900 scabs out of 3500 CAL pilots and 1500 CALEX pilots. The final vote was 67% in favor of ALPA. They tended to vote in a block and they had many sympathizers. So, they could not just be out-voted.

It is far more complicated than that but, that is as simple as I can make it.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

I dont care if Chuck Yeager hiself was a Democrat, i wouldnt vote for him...

Supply side economics are what works. help the rich, the restof the country prospers. Help the poor screw the rich, everone looses. Tax breaks for corporations and wealthy people brings capital into the economy. Welfare for the poor does nothing. How many people or companies have you worked for made less than $250,000 a year? probably none

Anyone who still believes this crap after the past few decades needs a lobotomy.

 

[SIUav8er]

Anyone who still believes this crap after the past few decades needs a lobotomy.

ah, c'mon! the housing market crash is what started this mess were in now. who was responsible for the lax rules regarding mortgages? people were given bad loans, the housing market took a downturn, nobody could afford their ARM's, the banks that loaned the money on these bad loans started to fail, confidence went out the window, and here we are today. Has nothing to do with tax policies... In fact its a pretty liberal idea that people should have the right to own a home even if they cant afford it. Whats-her-name, the president of ACORN (ie liberal) has stated that its a "right" for people in America to own a home.

This economic disaster has nothing in the world to do with the Bush tax cuts or whatever it is that you think is the cause of the recession.

 

[JoelT]

ah, c'mon! the housing market crash is what started this mess were in now. who was responsible for the lax rules regarding mortgages? people were given bad loans, the housing market took a downturn, nobody could afford their ARM's, the banks that loaned the money on these bad loans started to fail, confidence went out the window, and here we are today. Has nothing to do with tax policies... In fact its a pretty liberal idea that people should have the right to own a home even if they cant afford it. Whats-her-name, the president of ACORN (ie liberal) has stated that its a "right" for people in America to own a home.

This economic disaster has nothing in the world to do with the Bush tax cuts or whatever it is that you think is the cause of the recession.

Mmmmm, kool-aid tastes good.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

ah, c'mon! the housing market crash is what started this mess were in now. who was responsible for the lax rules regarding mortgages? people were given bad loans, the housing market took a downturn, nobody could afford their ARM's, the banks that loaned the money on these bad loans started to fail, confidence went out the window, and here we are today. Has nothing to do with tax policies... In fact its a pretty liberal idea that people should have the right to own a home even if they cant afford it. Whats-her-name, the president of ACORN (ie liberal) has stated that its a "right" for people in America to own a home.

This economic disaster has nothing in the world to do with the Bush tax cuts or whatever it is that you think is the cause of the recession.

Too much Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, obviously.

You should do some more research about the housing market crash. It wasn't the poor home owners who were defaulting, it was the upper-middle-class borrowers. ACORN had nothing to do with this. That's the red herring that the neo-cons are throwing out there to distract you from the true cause of this mess: lack of regulation over the economy in general. We need more regulation, not less. Milton Friedman was wrong. Sorry.

 

[SIUav8er]

ok... tax cuts and the war in Iraq/afghanistan is what caused the current economy. Learn something new every day.

I guess spending $800 billion in 30 days is going to solve all of our problems. i cant wait till my boss has to lay me off due to increased costs of doing business. That rich bastard doesnt pay his share and is un-american because he doesnt like supporting those who have less than he does. Maybe Ill get a job building a bridge for federal government.

The other day I was watching Bidden getting interviewed on CNBC, they asked him what in the stimulus plan helps small businesses. He hemed and hawed for aminute and then said that there would better roads and bridges to help get people to the said small businesses. Brilliant.. afterwards he had to ask his aides off camera what the "number" was for the website that outlines where the money in the stimulus package is going to be spent (www.recovery.gov for those interested) how could you forget a web address like that? It was a sarah palin moment the media didnt make fun of for some reason.

 

[deadstick]

It was a big fight at the ALPA BOD, but they ultimately decided to capitulate in order to help the loyal strikers at CAL who desperately wanted ALPA back on the property.

Just to play "devil's advocate," the mighty $ played no part of convincing the BOD -- maybe just a little more than helping the strikers?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Just to play "devil's advocate," the mighty $ played no part of convincing the BOD -- maybe just a little more than helping the strikers?

Ask Caucasian. He was there. It was before my time as a rep.

 

[SIUav8er]

Too much Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, obviously.

You should do some more research about the housing market crash. It wasn't the poor home owners who were defaulting, it was the upper-middle-class borrowers. ACORN had nothing to do with this. That's the red herring that the neo-cons are throwing out there to distract you from the true cause of this mess: lack of regulation over the economy in general. We need more regulation, not less. Milton Friedman was wrong. Sorry.

Ok, i can go on and on, but I thought this was interesting (barney Frank D-MA)

“These two entities — Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — are not facing any kind of financial crisis, the more people exaggerate these problems, the more pressure there is on these companies, the less we will see in terms of affordable housing.”

Barney Frank 2003 in response to Bush administration overhaul plan.

interesting...

[yt]_MGT_cSi7Rs[/yt]

 

[MikeD]

Alright, let's see if I can explain this concisely. I could explain this much better if we were talking face to face because I am an absolutely awful writer.

So, I was a part of the ALPA organizing drive at CAL/CALEX in 2000/2001. Before I go further first I need to give some background. 1983 there was a strike at CAL. In 1985 ALPA was busted by Lorenzo. ALL CAL pilots were scabs until the Order and Award that happened in the late 80's when the Full Term Strikers were brought back on property. That entailed a very messy senority integration.

The minute after the Order and Award the Full Term Strikers were trying to bring ALPA back on property but, they were outnumbered by scabs. Well, eventually even the scabs realized that Lorenzo was not their friend. They began to think that the Strikers might know what they are talking about and maybe a Union is needed. They tried to bring ALPA back but a large contingent of scabs did not want them so, the CAL pilots did the only thing they could do. They started the IACP (Independant Assoc of CAL Pilots) in 1993.

So, when the IACP was formed ALL CAL pilots were members in good standing (of course). So, it is now 2000 and those Strikers and now the CALEX pilots (who were also part of IACP) want ALPA on property. To do that they needed a vote of ALL MEMBERS IN GOOD STANDING (that means everyone). If the scabs were not allowed to join ALPA then they were certain to vote NO. So, they had to be "forgiven" in order for the greater good. At the time there were 900 scabs out of 3500 CAL pilots and 1500 CALEX pilots. The final vote was 67% in favor of ALPA. They tended to vote in a block and they had many sympathizers. So, they could not just be out-voted.

It is far more complicated than that but, that is as simple as I can make it.

Actually, that was very well written! Appreciate it!

Do the good standing/ forgiven guys that are still in the black book get denied...anything (if that were to happen), or is their good standing considered now?

 

[MikeD]

i cant wait till my boss has to lay me off due to increased costs of doing business. That rich bastard doesnt pay his share and is un-american because he doesnt like supporting those who have less than he does. Maybe Ill get a job building a bridge for federal government.

Maybe your boss should start layoffs by going to the parking lot and selecting anyone with an Obama bumper sticker to go first?

 

[SIUav8er]

Maybe your boss should start layoffs by going to the parking lot and selecting anyone with an Obama bumper sticker to go first?

there are a few of those...

 

[JoelT]

Ask Caucasian. He was there. It was before my time as a rep.

There were conspiracy theories floating around that the only reason ALPA wanted us was because we had $12M in the bank. That was put to rest when ALPA clarified that CALALPA would keep that cash and the rest of ALPA would not see a dime.

As far as dues income, ALPA was doing just fine. This was pre-9/11 so the richest contracts in history were in place (DAL, UAL, NWA) so money wasn't an issue. ALPA was doing just fine. So, no. Money was not a reason for the IACP/ALPA merger.

Also, FEDEX rejoined ALPA about six months later. Same thing with them.

 

[JoelT]

Actually, that was very well written! Appreciate it!

Do the good standing/ forgiven guys that are still in the black book get denied...anything (if that were to happen), or is their good standing considered now?

First of all, that "black book" is not maintained by ALPA and it is actually illegal for them to do so. The one that is floating around is done by an individual pilot and the real ironic thing is that he is not ALPA.

Now, that being said, any individual pilot can do whatever he wants with his own jumpseat. ALPA National will not, has not, and can not say anything about it. So yes, there are probably some die-hards out there that check the "list" everytime a CAL pilot asks for the jumpseat.

Hell, I had a Delta guy check the list for my name once because I said I worked for Continental Express (I guess he didn't know the difference). I just wanted to say, "Dude, I was eight years old in 1983, and my dad is a Delta pilot"!

 

[Cptnchia]

Hell, I had a Delta guy check the list for my name once because I said I worked for Continental Express (I guess he didn't know the difference). I just wanted to say, "Dude, I was eight years old in 1983, and my dad is a Delta pilot"!

Don't feel bad. I had an FE at Kiwi, (remember them!) grill me about what I was doing during the EAL strike once on the jumpseat. He wouldn't shut up until the captain told him to put on his glasses and take a good look at how old I was at the time and then do the math.

 

[H46Bubba]

More power to her as a former Navy guy stationed in the hangar right next door at HSL-37. However, I don't think I can support her for Congress just because she is an ALPA member. The dichotomy among many airline pilots (especially those over 35 or so) is they are politically conservative and tend to vote Republican.

That's because most airline pilots over 35 were prior military pilots and military officers tend to vote repubulican due to job security.

 

[deadstick]

That's because most airline pilots over 35 were prior military pilots and military officers tend to vote repubulican due to job security.

Republicans, historically, believe in that a strong offense is the best defense. Former service members have "been there, done that, etc" and can appreciate that feeling. For instance, the first Priority of Work for a unit in the defense (Army version) is "Establish Security." A parallel can be draw to the country: if populous is not and does not feel safe, the country cannot prosper.

That's all I gotta say about that...

 

[kellwolf]

ah, c'mon! the housing market crash is what started this mess were in now. who was responsible for the lax rules regarding mortgages? people were given bad loans, the housing market took a downturn, nobody could afford their ARM's, the banks that loaned the money on these bad loans started to fail, confidence went out the window, and here we are today. Has nothing to do with tax policies...

Right. And it was ALL the banks' fault. Had nothing to do with someone saying "Hey! I make $60K a year and want a $250K house!" Personal responsibility goes a long way. Sure, I could have gotten a house worth twice as much as the one I'm in, but I didn't b/c I couldn't afford it. Some of the people losing their homes right now couldn't afford them to begin with. It's BOTH the bank and the owners' faults. The banks probably shouldn't have taken the risk, but the owners should have read the fine print and actually done a budget. Don't even get me started on the house flippers that are getting burned b/c they were trying to make a quick buck. The government doesn't run and bail out people that lose money daily in the stock market. They shouldn't bail out the people that were speculating on home prices, either. That's something I like about the current housing plan: you have to be LIVING in the home to get any assistance.

 

[casey]

Right. And it was ALL the banks' fault. Had nothing to do with someone saying "Hey! I make $60K a year and want a $250K house!" Personal responsibility goes a long way.

heck, that is only the tip of the iceberg. There was a blog a year or two ago run by a guy that took some RE weekend seminars (paid for on credit) and decided to buy a house with a scheme called "cash back at closing". AFAIK it can be a legitimate thing when you set it up right and make the proper notifications and declarations, but not when you do under-the-table deals with the seller and appraisers to get the house over-valued by 30-50k, get the loan for that amount and have the seller write you a 30-50k check. He struggled with the house and flipped it for a pretty cash-neutral position (and i should mention he disclosed that on the loans he declared himself as a single home owner, not an investor). He then bought another home, same deal - massive loans and cash back, but the bubble was starting to show signs of popping and he had a bad eye for houses and he couldnt flip it. The mortgage was eating all his cash (and he was living off that cash-back-at-closing money, he quit his day job) so what did he do? He went out and bought 7 more houses in at least 4 different states, some sight unseen, all with huge no money down loans and more cashback at closing. The story gets pretty full of drama but the end result was a low-mid 20's kid with a quarter million dollars in delinquent credit (credit cards and lines of credit, some fraudulently obtained) and 8 homes worth something like 2.2 million - all foreclosed on. No personal responsibility and no accountability from anyone. And I'm sure that wasnt the only story like that.