Seggy
Well-Known Member
Hopefully we can get one of our own in there to start making some changes that can be beneficial to us as pilots!
http://www.donatelliforcongress.com/
http://www.donatelliforcongress.com/
Airline Pilot in Congress!
- Thread starter Seggy
- Start date
granlistillo
Well-Known Member
Is that her as a SNA?
granlistillo
Well-Known Member
Nevermind. The answer is affirmative. She was a VQ-3 or 4 TACAMO type. Good luck to her, regardless of her politics, it would be great to have an airline pilot advocate on the hill, in the right committees.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Oye. No wonder our profession is in dire straights.
BE19Pilot
Flying a Box
More power to her as a former Navy guy stationed in the hangar right next door at HSL-37. However, I don't think I can support her for Congress just because she is an ALPA member. The dichotomy among many airline pilots (especially those over 35 or so) is they are politically conservative and tend to vote Republican.
As an aside there are alot of reasons besides political parties that have driven this profession down the tubes. Who do you think had the watch when the airlines were deregulated in 1978? Jimmy Carter...
As an aside there are alot of reasons besides political parties that have driven this profession down the tubes. Who do you think had the watch when the airlines were deregulated in 1978? Jimmy Carter...
JoelT
Well-Known Member
I would say that Delta has had a massive shift toward voting Democrat in the last five years. Surprisingly, CAL also leans further left now than they ever have. United and NWA are pretty left leaning as well. BTW, I've seen polling data to back up my statements.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
No, the reason you should support her is because she supports working people instead of the rich and powerful. Hint: you're the former and not the latter.
Yes, airline pilots shoot themselves in the foot quite regularly when it comes to politics.
ALPA didn't take a position on deregulation, because no one really knew whether it would go poorly or not for our profession. Hindsight is 20/20. Things might have developed differently if labor had been staunchly opposed to deregulation. What's more telling is what has happened since then. The Reagan and Bush administrations were incredibly destructive towards this profession. The Clinton administration, by contrast, was practically our best friend.
ALPA or airline pilot's best friend? Isn't Clinton the one that stopped the strike at American in '97 and ordered the pilots back to work? Some union friend he was; like PATCO claiming Reagan was a friend.
JoelT
Well-Known Member
I'm going to let Todd answer that because he is more familiar with the details but, Clinton used the PEB because he was asked too.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
I think what Todd was referring to was the more or less "open door" policy the Clinton admin had with labor groups. It was a LOT easier to talk to the people in charge under Clinton than it was under Reagan or either Bush. I'm basing this purely off of anecdotal data from books I've read on the subject, though. I have no personal experience in the matter.
killbilly
Vocals, Lyrics, Triangle, Washboard, Kittens
I've heard from more than a handful of Aussies, Kiwis and Europeans that the U.S. version of a "liberal" is considered conservative by the rest of the world's standards, and that our "conservatives" tend to fall in line with what they consider total-right-wing-nutjobs.
Just thought it was interesting and relevant here. Carry on.
Just thought it was interesting and relevant here. Carry on.
JoelT
Well-Known Member
I have talked with many people in many bars in many countries around the world. I tend to agree with your assumption.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
There's a lot of bad info out there about this, and Clinton has gotten a bad rap unfairly. As the late, great Paul Harvey used to say, "and now, for the rest of the story."
The APA was released into a 30-day cooling off period in early '97 after reaching an impasse. Not being a part of the AFL-CIO, the APA didn't have a "labor coalition" set up with the other employee groups, so there was no way the other groups were going to honor their lines if they struck. There was a real concern that their lines wouldn't hold and that many pilots would cross. Without the backing of a labor coalition with the other unionized groups, having a significant number of scabs from the APA ranks could have destroyed their strike efforts (reference CAL '83 and EAL '89). When they reached their deadline at the end of the cooling off period without reaching an agreement, President Clinton called the then APA President and asked him what they would like him to do. The response from the APA President was "well, let's just say that we wouldn't be opposed to a PEB." Taking the hint, President Clinton issued the PEB just 24 minutes after the strike began. He didn't "stop" the strike, he did exactly what the union wanted him to do.
Sometimes it's strategically much better to not strike. In fact, that's usually the case. In the case of President Clinton, his PEB was going to be tilted extremely pro-labor. The company knew this, and this spurred an agreement. The APA got a good deal, and they didn't have to risk a strike. Clinton was a godsend.
Absolutely right. ALPA had a direct line to the West Wing of the White House during Clinton's administration. Chief White House Counsel Bruce Lindsay was constantly in contact with ALPA, especially with then-MEC Chairman Duane Woerth at NWA during the '98 contract talks. Lindsay and Clinton can be personally thanked for ending that strike in the pilots' favor. One of my favorite Clinton/Duane anecdotes:
Leading up to the strike, Clinton invited both Duane and the NWA senior managers to the Oval Office to discuss the outstanding issues. They talked for a little while without making any progress. Clinton then thanked everybody for coming and they all started to leave. As the NWA managers were walking out, Clinton called to Duane and asked him to stay behind to chat for a few more minutes. When Duane sat back down, he asked Clinton why he wanted him to stick around, and Bubba said "right now, those managers are walking out of here and worried to death about why I've asked you to stay behind privately. Let's just let 'em sweat for a few minutes and think that we're making some sort of deal." That's the kind of guy that Clinton was with pilot labor. He looked out for us.
When it got down to the wire and the strike was initiated, Duane and a few other guys from the MEC were in MSP meeting with management to try to strike a deal. A call came in to Duane from Bruce Lindsay. Lindsay wanted to know if management was budging at all. When Duane told him that there was no movement, Lindsay asked him to hand the phone to management. Apparently the conversation didn't go so well for management, and they quickly came back with the deal that became Contract '98 for NWA. That's the kind of pull that you get with a pro-labor administration. Don't underestimate the importance of Washington politics to your career.
Interesting info. Thanks.
Reference CAL '83, when ALPA lobbied to get back on the CAL property, were the scabs from '83 "forgiven"? ie- no longer scabs? I'd imagine there had to have been some provision for something like that.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
A scab is always a scab (forgiven but not forgotten, goes the saying). They were allowed to be members in good standing, but their names are still on the list.
Cruise
Well-Known Member
We have a member of that list working for CJC as the Q400 fleet manager (PDW are his initials). He's a distinguished member of the '89 EAL group. But then, 'ol Buddy Casey is also a product of that Lorenzo bunch. Guess it was an easy sell for the position.
Ok, gotta ask. How does that work? Good standing, but still on the list? The irony of that is very interesting, considering how scabs are viewed within the whole airline biz.
I'd think that'd be a Pandora's box of sorts.....others considered scabs wondering why they ca't be forgiven. This wasn't a sacrifice of the "core-beliefs" just to get back on property, was it?
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
"The list" isn't maintained by ALPA. Original lists were printed by the MECs, but it's maintained now by a pilot on his own time. ALPA doesn't get involved in that.
Not quite. The full-term strikers at CAL were the ones who asked for it. They wanted to have their ALPA representation back, and the only way to get it done was to placate the scabs and "forgive" them, since there was so many of them. At the time, over half of the list was scabs. It was a big fight at the ALPA BOD, but they ultimately decided to capitulate in order to help the loyal strikers at CAL who desperately wanted ALPA back on the property.
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