guywhoflies
Y'NO WUT IM SAYIN
Yep, I know a guy who started at ATP in Fall of '06, then went right into instructing with them and got hired in early 2008 and he is now FURLOUGHED................
"Airline Internship" at ATP?
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Yep, I know a guy who started at ATP in Fall of '06, then went right into instructing with them and got hired in early 2008 and he is now FURLOUGHED................
no really, i agree. to me, this is an excellent financing deal. it's just that i'm starting to realize there's more to this than i first was led to believe, aka being blinded by marketing.
a few years ago, i met a guy with us airways, a couple guys from pinacle, and a pilot with walmart. all of them went the college aviation route and after i explained the ATP model to them, they said "yeah, i wish i woulda gone through a faster program like that." i think i would enjoy the faster route and instructing others, but i guess i can be patient before starting because of my finances and the economy.
well, i'll admit, my first thoughts were "this anti-PFJ stuff is all just sour grapes". but the more i think about it, the more it makes sense.
i still want to go to ATP. this forum, among other sources, is what got me to like them. i actually toured GKY and was very impressed. that is still my choice of location. also, i have family in dallas.
i've been thinking about that lately. and i'm almost glad i didn't start training a few years ago and having a big debt at a bad time.
my problem is i don't currently have (and really never had) a good enough paying job to support my training as i go. the advantage i see with ATP-style outfits is the the structured training and the "lump loan" financing. although, the problem with that is... well... i can't get good enough financing. :banghead:
Strychnine
New Member
It's not that PNC has a vested interest in Gulfstream, I think PNC is either more picky about which flight schools they lend for or most just went with Sallie Mae instead of worrying with getting approved by PNC. Of all the schools in Florida, they only lend for American Flyers, DCA, ERAU, and Gulfstream. I have been trying to get into ATP for a few months now, and they are about 6 months into the process of being approved by PNC (which supposedly takes 2 years).
Like w88, I have also been approved for the ACPP + Gulfstream, and I am still undecided on it. The only reason I am considering it is because I would rather get the training done now, hopefully find a good CFI gig after all of it, and be in a good position to get in at the beginning of a hiring swing (if there ever is one). ATP + Gulfstream is still cheaper than DCA. There is no local FBO that I can use. The best available local is a flying club and freelance instructors, none of whom have anything resembling an open schedule. I guess I have SJS, but without caring about the shiny jets. I won't cry if I never get to starve working as an FO for a regional. I could live happily with a good CFI job. What I don't want to do anymore is work with computers and networks. I don't want to stay here in southwest Georgia anymore, but I don't want to relocate just to work with computers and networks some more.
Like w88, I have also been approved for the ACPP + Gulfstream, and I am still undecided on it. The only reason I am considering it is because I would rather get the training done now, hopefully find a good CFI gig after all of it, and be in a good position to get in at the beginning of a hiring swing (if there ever is one). ATP + Gulfstream is still cheaper than DCA. There is no local FBO that I can use. The best available local is a flying club and freelance instructors, none of whom have anything resembling an open schedule. I guess I have SJS, but without caring about the shiny jets. I won't cry if I never get to starve working as an FO for a regional. I could live happily with a good CFI job. What I don't want to do anymore is work with computers and networks. I don't want to stay here in southwest Georgia anymore, but I don't want to relocate just to work with computers and networks some more.
LoadMasterC141
Well-Known Member
Not true at all....If I was hired in the Fall-Winter of 2006, I would not be furloughed from any airline except maybe Xjet, and even that one is questionable.
I've done the FBO and worked at ATP and would tell newbies the complete opposite.
2 years ago i applied for the ATP private+career and SLM wanted 15.5%. at the time my credit score was in the 660's. now my score is in the 780's.
i called ATP this morning and SLM still wants 14.7%.
the PNC loan for ATP+Gulfstream will be only 5.75%.
i don't want to have the extra principal of gulfstream, and i do see the issue of possibly paying for someone else's furloughed job.
but man, that PNC loan is hard to beat. i dunno. this is a tough one.
Goonie
Never say die
That is insanity! You could just pay for the training on a credit card and get a better rate than that.
Clocks
Well-Known Member
Well I don't know what to say to that. A ballpark estimate (bankrate.com) tells me that you'll ultimately pay $27,000 less over 20 years even though you'll have $25k more in principle.
By some twisted logic you could say that Gulfstream is supplementing your initial training (someone certainly is, PNC isn't doing this out of the kindness of their heart). That's really tough. Assuming you have your heart set on ATP (for whatever reasons you have), and assuming you can't get a better loan elsewhere or wait for a better rate...you'll be throwing away $27,000 if you don't do the gulfstream program.
I can't fault you no matter which way you go with this. $27,000 is real money, whether it's money right now or money saved over the course of your career. It's also $5,000 more than expressjet paid me for my first year. I mean, is it even PFJ any more? I'm typing this live as I think, so I'm all over the place in my head. We can debate on whether or not someone with 250 hours should be in the cockpit at an airline...but that's a long discussed topic with many threads already on the forums, and not directly tied to this topic (people with 250 hours flew at TSA, and some other airlines).
That raises the question again...who is eating that cost? Gulfstream? ATP? Someone is...
What airline? Just want to know where these guys ultimately end up.
Fly_Unity
Well-Known Member
I finished ATP winter of 06 I believe and all my room mates are still with their airline, even the one that went to Express Jet.
I had a close friend that started the FBO route the same time I started the ATP route, I choose to flight instruct (didn't want to go the airline route) I got nearly 2000 hours, a nice paying corporate job, and debt free, My friend, well he finally passed his CFII rating (had tons of problems with different instructors and FSDO's) and he nearly got 300 hours and is looking for a job, and is struggling to pay the bills. Which route is better again? I currently instruct at a FBO on the side, and from what I seen ATP turned out better pilots because the students were their to learn and devoted to it fully, here at the FBO when the student wants to fly once a week or so, he spends the majority of the time relearning stuff.
(Again Im not endorsing ATP because of their outrageous prices now, but There are other accelerated schools out there that operate similar to ATP)
Strychnine
New Member
The CA and FO of Pinnacle 3701 were from Gulfstream, and the CA of Colgan 3407 was. I don't know if the Colgan CA went through Gulfstream Academy, or if he was just a pilot for Gulfstream previously. Both of the Pinnacle guys went through Gulfstream Academy. I know that obviously casts Gulfstream in a bad light, but I just mentioned them to show that Gulfstream folks are at least making it to regionals.
Isn't Gulfstream considered a regional? So by being at GIA, aren't guys already there? Or do you mean first paid regional job?
Strychnine
New Member
That is the only reason I have been considering the ATP + Gulfstream thing. Sallie Mae's rates are ridiculous, and that rules out most of the flight schools (including ATP by itself). I've been holding out to see if it looks good for ATP picking up PNC independently, and considering American Flyers in Pompano or Atlanta (PNC loans for them). I cannot find much recent and relevant information on them though.
I would rather just go to ATP and skip the Gulfstream part. Sure, 250 hours of turbine would look great on what would be my low-timer's resume, but I don't really like the nature of the operation.
Strychnine
New Member
Yep, it's a regional. If they went to Gulfstream Academy, first regional job. There are probably mainline pilots that went there too, but I can't identify them since I don't actually know.
The best thing that I've come up with to call Gulfstream Academy is a poorly-paid, but expensive to purchase, internship.
juxtapilot
Snowflake
What did they say about doing the ATP loan through Gulfstream?
If they say no, push harder. ATP is really good at lying, but if they think they might lose money they will probably give in. "Well if you can't do this loan through Gulfstream for the ACP program I guess I'll have to go for training elsewhere..."
LoadMasterC141
Well-Known Member
One more time here.....ATP is doing this because it is the only way they are able to get good financing. For some reason, PNC bank will loan for the combined ATP and Gulfstream program but not just ATP alone. ATP is not lying about this.
juxtapilot
Snowflake
I say he try to get the financing through Gulfstream... ATP might be able to do it. I've seen it done, but not for the whole amount. (Not sure if the person who applied for the loan through Gulfstream got it though, but I do know they applied for it.)
LoadMasterC141
Well-Known Member
Ok Sorry maybe I am misunderstanding....
You are saying he should try to get the loan, for just ATP, through Gulfstream itself? Meaning Gulfstream the airline or Gulfstream's lender, PNC bank?
Sorry again just trying to be clear.
You are saying he should try to get the loan, for just ATP, through Gulfstream itself? Meaning Gulfstream the airline or Gulfstream's lender, PNC bank?
Sorry again just trying to be clear.
juxtapilot
Snowflake
He could try to get the loan through PNC, using Gulfstream Academy as the school. Since ATP has their "agreement" or whatever you call it with Gulfstream it might work. Not completely sure, but it's worth a shot.
LoadMasterC141
Well-Known Member
Ok that is what I thought, but yeah he is already trying to get the loan through Gulfstream , or PNC bank, using the Gulfstream/ATP program from what he has said.
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