Air Safety Flight Academy or ATP?

Maximilian_Jenius

Maximilian_Jenius

Super User
Which one is better?
What are the pros and cons of each school/program?
I called Air Safety today they said there program is $43,300 a savings of more then $18,000 becuase I already hold my PPL.
There aircraft of choice at Air Safety is the Cirrus SR-20. The program is a 7 1/2 month and offered as both a part 61 or 141 with ground school and closely monitored instruction.
Since I hold my PPL, I would get 172 hours and 45 hours of multi-time. As part of the program, they offer guaranteed flight instructor positions for students.
At ATP, all time is done at a Piper seminole, so you get to build lots of multi-time and the program cost is $37,000. The downside is that everything is self-paced and accelerated.
Which is the better program?
I have yet to visit both schools, as that would determine which school I would attend. Does anybody have any opinions?

-Matthew
 
while I haven't ehard much about air safety flying the cirrus would be a lot of fun, but I'd still be inclined to say you should go with ATP as twin time=good and I've heard some good things about it. But definately go to both schools if you can and decide which you feel is a better fit for you. Twin time is nice, but it might also be a better decision to go somewhere where you'd enjoy living more.
 
Airsafety but I am biased
grin.gif
 
why would you spend that much money? You can do it for much less by going the conventional way and probably learn more valuable lessons.
 
[ QUOTE ]
why would you spend that much money? You can do it for much less by going the conventional way and probably learn more valuable lessons.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeahthat.gif


If I had to choose between the two, I'd say go with ATP. Less money, more multi. In addition, I'd be wary of any place that will guarantee an instructor job. Also, I'm not a big fan of the Cirrus, especially as a training aircraft.
 
This is true, but there's something to be said for getting it done quickly, and start making $$. At least in my case, the 90 day program at ATP made sense, because I'm not getting any younger (29 right now), and I couldn't really afford to spend a year or 2 at an FBO to get all my ratings. With ATP, I was done in just under 90 days, and had a CFI job within a month of completing their program, allowing me to start building time and move up quicker.
 
[ QUOTE ]
why would you spend that much money? You can do it for much less by going the conventional way and probably learn more valuable lessons.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually I have priced it and ATP vs. the traditional FBO and there right about the same price.
Sallie Mae is about $32-35k for the FBO and ATP is $37k so there isn't that much difference in price really!

-Matthew
 
[ QUOTE ]
I was done in just under 90 days, and had a CFI job within a month of completing their program, allowing me to start building time and move up quicker.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm 28 yrs. old so I agree with you on that. My issue with ATP is that I'm concerned with getting an instructor position after completing the program.
I'm thinking due to the popularity of the program they have a back list for instructors.
Again I haven't visited either program and seen everything yet you know to compare and contrast programs but it's on the agenda.
ATP sticks out in my mind the most and is my first choice because the enormous amount of multi-time gained in there program.
The draw back is the fast pace of the program. Many people who I have talked to have all said typically the same thing about ATP that there good at what they do.
Accelerated training but as for retention of said knowledge that could be a grey area.
Air Safety says they have a structured program and you work with your instructor and it's not self paced that works for me especially after not having flown in almost a year and a half.
The chance of flying a Cirrus with TCAS,GPWS and a glass cockpit is nice but I know that I prolly shouldnt base my choice on going there solely on that.

-Matthew
 
Keep in mind there are more schools than ATP to instruct after you're done. Just make sure they don't just train you to pass one DE's checkride. I'd say go the traditional route, failing that I'd say go ATP. I'm a big fan of doing things on the cheap, and while ATP isn't cheap, at least you're getting multi time out of it. The Cirrus is NOT a training aircraft. You have to go on long cross countries just to have enough time to cover one avionics lesson. Why is that better than learning the old fashioned way in a 172 while saving a chunk of change? At my old school the rental price on the Cirrus was MORE than the twin. Don't be swayed by fancy equipment. You still have to learn all the items in the PTS no matter what plane you fly, so you might as well save some hurt on the bank account.
 
[ QUOTE ]
The Cirrus is NOT a training aircraft. You have to go on long cross countries just to have enough time to cover one avionics lesson.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo. Just to add to that, there are some safety concerns I have about the Cirrus.
1. No manual trim. If you have a runaway trim condition, you have to recognize the malfunction, locate the breaker, pull it, and even then the trim is stuck at whatever position it reached by the time the breaker is pulled.
2. You can pretty much assume that the Cirrus will not recover from a spin. They tell you not to "waste time" attempting to recover and to just pulls the CAPS chute. So maybe the thing will fire, and maybe it will wrap around a wing or the tail.
3. Composite burns and noone really knows how composite parts behave over time.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Skymates dude, Skymates.

[/ QUOTE ]

Gotta work bro.... I don't have a trust fund!
So confined to do all my training here in the PHX. area!
Incidently when you comin out bro?

-Matthew
 
Got one more for ya: the avionics screens. You lose your primary screen, it's gone and you're on backup instruments. There's no way to switch the displays.
 
[ QUOTE ]
Keep in mind there are more schools than ATP to instruct after you're done.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is true but as I'm sure that your aware most places don't like to hire instructors that didn't train at their school!
Also I have heard due to the fast pace of ATP that many school/FBO's don't like to hire ATP grads.
Becuase the ATP program is an accelerated program. I.E. they have the rating but lack the proper skils needed to be good instructors

[ QUOTE ]

Just make sure they don't just train you to pass one DE's checkride.

[/ QUOTE ]

The owner at Air Safety (whom I spoke with) said they do exactly that cookie cutter checkrides.
Now I'm well aware that he wants me to drop my money at his place so he is gonna say whatever to sway me to his side.

[ QUOTE ]

At my old school the rental price on the Cirrus was MORE than the twin.

[/ QUOTE ]

They quoted me a rate of $137.00 an hour

[ QUOTE ]

Don't be swayed by fancy equipment. You still have to learn all the items in the PTS no matter what plane you fly, so you might as well save some hurt on the bank account.

[/ QUOTE ]

C'mon Kells...I'm a JC alum! Were the type of peeps that wants pure facts an no B.S. The equip sounds nice but I'm not swayed just cause of that.
Me going to that Air Safety just cause of the fancy new plane would be like Continnental pilots taking huge cuts just for the chance to fly shiny new 7E7's.
Doug has taught me and everyone else here better then that!

grin.gif


-matthew
 
June, I'll let you know the details once I'm closer to starting. I'm either flying up your way or over to California to see a good friend that just got back from his second tour in Iraq with the Marines. Gotta get a hold of him first though, and for all I know he might get sent back...again.
 
I am currently attending Airsafety and train in the Cirrus. The Cirrus is NOT an aircraft for a zero time pilot. If you already have that foundation of knowing how to fly then the rest is personal preference. That is why they plan to change up a bit and select those that will train in the Cirrus if you don't have a private yet. It's a fast aircraft and putting new things to work are easily done if you know what you're gonna do. That involves extensive self ground schooling.
If you can land a 172 succesfully on a consistent basis then I'd say you're ready to try it out.
Knowing Matthew, he shouldn't have a hard time at all, unless it doesn't fit his learning curve.
This is all I'll type now since I have to get back to those ground school self studies on the Cirrus.

P.S. - Any avionics going out shouldn't phase any pilot unless it's zero, zero conditions. Now the engine going out, at anytime, hits the panic button.
grin.gif

And their is plus for every minus as with any other plane.
 
"Who's at spot 46? Turn left, seven left JAR follow the sixth American super eighty"

*sigh*
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top