Air India plane crash

BEEF SUPREME said:
Yeah I’ll only have 24 years in at retirement…
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*Desired retirement I'll have 20. Mandatory, I'd have 26. None of us going to have cherry picked Seattle day trips on the weekdays in SEA.

* though I think you are still a few years older than me, so suck it old man!
 
Mandatory retirement about 37.25 total company yrs and #2 on the list, though I’m sure the HAL SLI will change that. I was 27 when hired early 2012.
 
I think most people had the feeling it was going the way of pilot error. The Dreamliner has been around for over a decade now and both jet engines don’t just quit at ~400 ft in the air.
 
Did we solve it yet? We needed to know within 24 hrs of the crash, I can't believe it's taken this long!!!! :)
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I think most people had the feeling it was going the way of pilot error. The Dreamliner has been around for over a decade now and both jet engines don’t just quit at ~400 ft in the air.
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Well, short of aloha snackbar pulling the fuel cutoff switches in tandem shrooming AS jumpseater style, it'll be very interesting to learn what human input can cause this. If any.
 
///AMG said:
Did we solve it yet? We needed to know within 24 hrs of the crash, I can't believe it's taken this long!!!! :)
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ChasenSFO said:
Well, short of aloha snackbar pulling the fuel cutoff switches in tandem shrooming AS jumpseater style, it'll be very interesting to learn what human input can cause this. If any.
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…and the practice of 10+ hr block flights with only 2 pilots. In US regs, this would have been a 3 man crew, and a jumpseater could have been the extra set of eyes and ears that could have made the difference.



Hell…. I jumpseated on an Air Canada MAX8 from LAX to Toronto. Seat in the back of course, but stopped to ask permission. And then I asked how long was your LA layover? “Oh, it’s just a turn for us.” I was shocked. That was also 10+ block hours in one period with a 2 man crew. That said, I did the math. 1115am checkin for a 1215 pm depart Toronto, land LA 225pm. Turn and depart at 340pm land Toronto at 1130pm, released 1145pm. That’s a 12:30 duty block. And honestly, most of that is block time. I’ve done countless days with 3-5+ legs with duty days exceeding 12 hrs (and don’t get me started pre-117 rest rules). So maybe this Air Canada day trip gig isn’t too bad.
 
Shiftace said:
Saw this pop up on the feed:

theaircurrent.com

Air India crash investigation focuses on movement of engine fuel control switches

Data from the Dreamliner’s black box points investigators towards improper, inadvertent or intentional pilot actions
theaircurrent.com theaircurrent.com
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Still quite speculative at this point, no?

What evidence is there of an engine failure? There were no conspicuous signs of an engine failure (no sounds, sparks, flames, flock of birds seen, etc.). Based on my reading of others' comments on this threat, the loss of or manual shutdown of an engine would cause momentary, visible oscillations before flight control surfaces are manually or automatically corrected to account for asymmetrical thrust. From the videos available, there does not appear to be any yawing motion. Additionally, the pilots do not indicate on ATC audio that there's an issue with a single engine, nor have any directives been published regarding checking engines on other 787s.

From the available crash footage, to my untrained ear, it sounds as if the engines are producing thrust (I'm not referring to the distinct RAT sound), albeit significantly reduced thrust. If the fuel feed to both engines were manually shut off, I suspect one wouldn't hear any thrust coming from the engines. The article also says mechanical failure is not suspected.

Surely, the PNF would notice if they turned off the fuel supply to the wrong engine. Surely, the 787's systems would be screaming that the good engine had no fuel supply. If both fuel switches were manually turned to off, this would have to be intentional, right?
 
arkavgal said:
Still quite speculative at this point, no?

What evidence is there of an engine failure? There were no conspicuous signs of an engine failure (no sounds, sparks, flames, flock of birds seen, etc.). Based on my reading of others' comments on this threat, the loss of or manual shutdown of an engine would cause momentary, visible oscillations before flight control surfaces are manually or automatically corrected to account for asymmetrical thrust. From the videos available, there does not appear to be any yawing motion. Additionally, the pilots do not indicate on ATC audio that there's an issue with a single engine, nor have any directives been published regarding checking engines on other 787s.

From the available crash footage, to my untrained ear, it sounds as if the engines are producing thrust (I'm not referring to the distinct RAT sound), albeit significantly reduced thrust. If the fuel feed to both engines were manually shut off, I suspect one wouldn't hear any thrust coming from the engines. The article also says mechanical failure is not suspected.

Surely, the PNF would notice if they turned off the fuel supply to the wrong engine. Surely, the 787's systems would be screaming that the good engine had no fuel supply. If both fuel switches were manually turned to off, this would have to be intentional, right?
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Ostrower is one of the more respected folks in the industry - if he's writing on it, it's because he has a pretty strong source.
 
Blocking an investigator, being cagey with information, and even now, not having the prelim available to the public, are all red flags that will probably point to the fuel switches being moved to the cutoff position. It doesn't explain the why, but it does check all the other boxes.
 
arkavgal said:
I wonder if the AAIB normally releases a transcript of the cockpit voice recorder during the investigation.
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Not sure of this AAIB, but ordinarily yes. Transcripts would be included with time stamps and associated events (For example: 10:00:00 Mic 1: Flaps up. 10:00:03 Mic 2 Flaps up. 10:00:05 flap lever moved to retracted detent). The United States doesn't release CVR audio as it can be traumatizing for the public and families of the victims.
 
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