Yeah, that probably makes sense. I've thought that AF and Navy Officers should probably make what Army Warrants make for a while now - at least until the O-4/5 level.
Air Force CSO
- Thread starter So ILL
- Start date
Yeah, that probably makes sense. I've thought that AF and Navy Officers should probably make what Army Warrants make for a while now - at least until the O-4/5 level.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
I thought that once.
A few guided SAM and AAA engagements later, I realized that I'd earned every cent of that compensation the hard way. Saluting taps at a bro's funeral or watching flag-draped caskets get loaded on a C-17 in some craphole country has continued to solidify that belief for me.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
One thing that was never lost to me was that the system attracted and retained some exceptional folks. Pay, benefits, and retirement are part of the equation.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
To be fair, the system also retains and promotes some complete idiots who are great politicians but terrible warfighters, while simultaneously driving out some of the most dedicated warriors and brilliant minds due to the idiocy of the system.
I have seen both ends of the spectrum serving side-by-side with me, unfortunately.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
It is a shame that the services attract some exceptional talent and either fail to recognize it or suck the life out of it.
I would have to say that that's been my main experience with so-called "leaders" I've worked under. The good ones have been the vast minority, but luckily, are still there in places.
ryan1234
Desensitized Member
IMHO, there are really a lot more variables to the military officer - civilian pay relationship. As long as you fill the politically correct bidding containers for promotion in the military, you can be promoted and essentially make the same amount of money as your nearest seniority peer. However, there are a lot more opportunity costs lost for the smart, critical thinking, innovative officer than their civilian counter-part. You're right that an English major can make $100k in 8-10 years, but a savy English major who put the same amount of work and innovation into a civilian business enterprise or job, could very well find him or herself in a much better position, all allowances / benefits included. When I was at OTS, a flight-mate of mine had a PhD in Astrophysics, was a former cryogenic engineer, and has a successful business holding serious IP and assets for collecting positrons. He wanted to serve and fly. Certainly an exception, but it's hard to argue that he is not underpaid.
hook_dupin
Well-Known Member
Here here.
The crazy thing to me is this: the demographics with the highest casualty rates since OEF were also probably the bottom third on the pay chart. We don't pay kids enough to be EOD techs. I still think I'm doing fine.
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
Your concern for the proletariat concerns me.
hook_dupin
Well-Known Member
Me caring about those filling the boots on the ground is concerning? ...or did I just completely interpret that wrong (highly possible)?
I'm really just trying to make the case that more danger doesn't equal more pay. In fact, more danger usually equals less pay for our service folks
There was a 2012 DoD study that made the case that the combat zone tax exclusion benefited upper echelons way more than the junior force (you know...the group actually doing the fighting...) . http://www.defense.gov/News/NewsArticle.aspx?ID=11684
I'll stop this pay thread derail:
Being a WSO has been great. The work was rewarding and challenging. My pay/compensation has been more than fair. Sometimes, the wrong people get promoted and the right people don't. @So ILL, any questions?
Pilot Fighter
Well-Known Member
Just messing with you. The Cold War is over, you can embrace your inner socialist.
Your points are well-taken.
hook_dupin
Well-Known Member
Ha! I'm the loon who thinks the retirement system is a bad for us and that folks should be paid based on their value to the organization balanced with their relative scarcity. Crazy stuff.
So ILL
Weightless
It sounds like the risk/bs you have to put up with is worth rewards plus you get to work with some great ppl. For me I think the community and intagables alone are reward enough to put up with the grind for a few years.
Like I said, I just hope to get a few hours a week to do some flying at a local airport and build some flight flight time doing the flying I want to do. The airlines will be there down the road.
Hacker15e
Who am I? Where are my pants?
I have spent my entire career using the "bs-vs-reward" model of evaluating if it is all worth it. I'm still here, 18+ years later, and after quite a large heap of BS (probably more than most average joes will have to deal with during their careers).
Here at the end of the road (and especially flying a desk rather than a jet) it is significantly less worth it than when I was training to ride a big gray chariot of fire into battle...but strangely it is still worth it.
hook_dupin
Well-Known Member
So will many many other industries. Some of them don't even exist yet. Leadership will always be in demand, and you'll have it in spades. Placed among a group of civilians, I am surprised now at how I just automatically start leading the group...
You'll learn some military-unique basics to aviation, you'll learn the tactics for your airframe. After a few years, you'll learn tactics from other communities and how to leverage all those capabilities to fly, fight, and win.
What you'll really learn is how to work as a group, take care of each other, and lead. You'd be shocked at how much that doesn't exist ...even in the non-combat parts of the military.