AF447 Vanity Fair article

[seagull]

I think some of us here are arguing over an inability or ability to fly a visual approach because of the Asiana crash- but in my opinion, the cause wasn't related to if they could/couldn't fly a visual; it was a much simpler failure. They did not look at their airspeed, and if the PM did, he certainly didn't have the confidence to speak up. 30 knots slow on final? I'm taking the facking airplane from you. All either one had to do was say "slow", and the other make the corrective action. [So questions should be directed at PM/PF duties, culture, and scan rather than "stick and rudder".]

While we're talking Airbus/Boeing automations, I think you could also include Air Florida as an automation related crash. They had power available if they just pushed up the throttles (like any hand-flying aviator would do when slow in the climb, apparently). They trusted the EPR setting on the gauge over what the airplane was actually doing.

You might want to go back and read previous posts on the topic.

 

[ppragman]

I dunno, I usually don't fly visual patterns anymore by simply looking out the window, I cross reference my position and altitude with known "gates" or "wickets" or whatever you want to call them, but I know that if I'm going to roll out on a 1 final, I need to roll out at 300' AGL. If I'm going to roll out on a 2 mile final (which is close to preferable in almost every airplane I've flown) I need to be at 600' AGL when I roll out during a visual pattern. If I was going to be flying something that's super fast, plan to roll out at around 900 to 1000' at 3SM out. That's just me though, everybody does it differently.

 

[MikeD]

I dunno, I usually don't fly visual patterns anymore by simply looking out the window, I cross reference my position and altitude with known "gates" or "wickets" or whatever you want to call them, but I know that if I'm going to roll out on a 1 final, I need to roll out at 300' AGL. If I'm going to roll out on a 2 mile final (which is close to preferable in almost every airplane I've flown) I need to be at 600' AGL when I roll out during a visual pattern. If I was going to be flying something that's super fast, plan to roll out at around 900 to 1000' at 3SM out. That's just me though, everybody does it differently.

Like flying the overhead pattern. The downwind to final turn is "halfway down when halfway around", so as to end up 300 at 1. Simple, works.

 

[derg]

That's 'cause Delta pilots are fricking awesome! And given the chance, they'll tell you that. Over and over.

You're damned right we are. And on the dance floor as well. Don't get served, son.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

You're damned right we are. And on the dance floor as well. Don't get served, son.

I guess I do think of myself as the savior of mankind.

 

[🦈💜]

I guess I do think of myself as the savior of mankind.

That looks like a gang-bang about to start...

-Fox

 

[Hacker15e]

That looks like a gang-bang about to start...

Knock Knock....

 

[jynxyjoe]

That looks like a gang-bang about to start...

-Fox

Yuck. Funny though, so have my like.

 

[queeno]

I think Todd needs a hug !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[trafficinsight]

I'm not what you'd call a huge GA booster (if I'm never in another 172, that'll be fine). But I do think that one underappreciated side effect of a robust GA presence is that one gets a chance to go out and do a few things that it would be stone-stupid to allow in an airplane with paying passengers. It is, of course, impossible to prove a negative (eg. that on such and such a date, a transport didn't crash because someone remembered something from their Cessna days), but I personally rather suspect that this has something to do with the excellent safety record of US airlines.

It's not even about doing stupid things, I think, just about doing things.

I once ran across really old scrapbooks from the flying club I belong to and was incredibly envious of the aerial adventures they went on in many different types of airplanes. One photo had a loose formation consisting of a Travel Air, a Cherokee Six, a V-tail Bonanza, and a Cessna 170, the trip was from San Jose to Florida for a flying competition. There were photos of dirt strips, photos of spot landings in a Waco, and photos from Mexico, food relief airlifts, and all kinds of different things they did. The club's 170 rented for less than 10$ an hour (Minimum wage, if my dad can be believed, was around $2.25 an hour... so a day of work bought you more than 2 hours of flying.)

When I was lower time and gaining hours for ratings I never had the money, nor were the different types of airplanes generally available to me. Insurance wouldn't allow that kind of trip even if they were available and I did have the money. I got a lot of my time up until the current survey job doing maintenance test flights on airplanes that I had worked on directly above the airport or solely within the valley in which I live. I will be the first to admit that that kind of time doesn't really add up to much meaningful/transferable experience, but it was there and it was free or cheap. Oh yeah, and in the last 10 years the cost of rental has doubled even from when I learned to fly.

It's not a wonder to me that those skills are eroding. The experiences that lead to them aren't there.