Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
supercell86 said:
You wanna re-thinking saying that again...ur busted!
Also r-e-g-i-o-n-a-l not reginols
-Matthew
Advanced Airline Pilot Programs
- Thread starter supercell86
- Start date
You wanna re-thinking saying that again...ur busted!
Also r-e-g-i-o-n-a-l not reginols
-Matthew
supercell86
New Member
Maximillian_Jenius said:
ok, ill say again....my QUESTION is how to i get to the regionals the fastest, my PLAN is NOT to get to the regionals the fastest, i was just wondering if ONE wanted to get there the fastest way possible how they would go about doing that......i never said that was my personal plan.....maybe you assumed that, you know what they say about pilots who assume things....lol, sorry
supercell86
New Member
DE727UPS said:
Thank you, that was ALL i was wondering, not that I plan on going there, I just like to know every option that it out there....I know you answered that like 3 pages ago DE727, lol. Also, DE727, what was the TT of the pilots on that horrible Pinnacle RJ flt.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
supercell86 said:
Well the obvious question is why would you ask such a question if you have no interest at all in following that path? Why would you at all care then?
I'm looking at a 06 350Z but why would I ask MSRP about a 06 Maxima?
Think I smell B.S.!
-Matthew
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Couple of things...
Supercell, I'm glad you are posing questions here. Good place to learn from. Other's have said it and I will say it too. Clean up your spelling and capitalization. It doesn't have to be perfect. Lord knows I can't spell most of the time, but people will take you a whole lot more seriously if your sentence structure looks better. I know, it's a web board, who cares... but still... all the little dashes... make some of us wonder a bit...
The RAA thing. I've done my share of RAA bashing. I'm something of a low time wonder as well, getting on a regional at 850 hours. I feel damn lucky to be here at my time, and have said multiple times that I learn new stuff everyday. Some of it is specific to 121/major airport flying that I wouldn't have learned if I had spent another 500 hours in a Seminole, and some of it I would have seen in a local pattern in a 152. I instructed at an airport that had an RAA facility and for the most part I didn't have a problem with them. However, it did seem like they busted regs more then other schools on the field (and they weren't the biggest school either). Landing on the wrong runway, cutting other traffic off, and the like wasn't uncommon. Nor did it happen everyday. That sort of thing is going to happen in a training environment. The problem I do have with RAA is their training timeline and cost structure. It comes down to Don's pet peeve of advertising. They make it sound like that if you *don't* go spend the money on the type at CAE then you have no chance of getting hired at a regional ever. Stuff like that. And you know what? It works. Regionals LOVE hiring these guys with the type already. It makes their training that much eaiser. That said, out of my class of 11 only 2 had the type and everybody did just as well as they did. Sure, their first few sim sessions may have gone smoother, but by session 3 everybody was on equal footing. The problem with all this is that if that many people do fall for the advertising and go spend 30K on the type, airlines may start prefferential hiring and that screws over everybody else who is acting as a professional and excpecting to have the company pay for their training? Did I just use the PFT word? I guess I did as you could sort of look at it that way (and I know that it isn't really that, just making a point). So, do I have a problem with RAA specificly? No. They cost too much, and they really aren't the fastest way to go despite their advertising. Is the quality of training bad? No, I don't think so. They are about as good as any other pilot factory. A lot depends on the student, a lot depends on the instructor and that is about all.
Oh yeah and I'll agree, the fastest way to a regional? Gulfstream. Just keep in mind it might be your first AND last airline.
Supercell, I'm glad you are posing questions here. Good place to learn from. Other's have said it and I will say it too. Clean up your spelling and capitalization. It doesn't have to be perfect. Lord knows I can't spell most of the time, but people will take you a whole lot more seriously if your sentence structure looks better. I know, it's a web board, who cares... but still... all the little dashes... make some of us wonder a bit...
The RAA thing. I've done my share of RAA bashing. I'm something of a low time wonder as well, getting on a regional at 850 hours. I feel damn lucky to be here at my time, and have said multiple times that I learn new stuff everyday. Some of it is specific to 121/major airport flying that I wouldn't have learned if I had spent another 500 hours in a Seminole, and some of it I would have seen in a local pattern in a 152. I instructed at an airport that had an RAA facility and for the most part I didn't have a problem with them. However, it did seem like they busted regs more then other schools on the field (and they weren't the biggest school either). Landing on the wrong runway, cutting other traffic off, and the like wasn't uncommon. Nor did it happen everyday. That sort of thing is going to happen in a training environment. The problem I do have with RAA is their training timeline and cost structure. It comes down to Don's pet peeve of advertising. They make it sound like that if you *don't* go spend the money on the type at CAE then you have no chance of getting hired at a regional ever. Stuff like that. And you know what? It works. Regionals LOVE hiring these guys with the type already. It makes their training that much eaiser. That said, out of my class of 11 only 2 had the type and everybody did just as well as they did. Sure, their first few sim sessions may have gone smoother, but by session 3 everybody was on equal footing. The problem with all this is that if that many people do fall for the advertising and go spend 30K on the type, airlines may start prefferential hiring and that screws over everybody else who is acting as a professional and excpecting to have the company pay for their training? Did I just use the PFT word? I guess I did as you could sort of look at it that way (and I know that it isn't really that, just making a point). So, do I have a problem with RAA specificly? No. They cost too much, and they really aren't the fastest way to go despite their advertising. Is the quality of training bad? No, I don't think so. They are about as good as any other pilot factory. A lot depends on the student, a lot depends on the instructor and that is about all.
Oh yeah and I'll agree, the fastest way to a regional? Gulfstream. Just keep in mind it might be your first AND last airline.
Another aspect you've got to consider is that there's an entire industry set up to take advantage of people that want it now and fast.
You can get it done quickly of course, but you'll have to pay the piper down the road.
Say you're a 300 CRJ FO and your company can't match the cost saving demands of it's contract carrier. If you get furloughed you're screwed because why would a company hire a 300 hr CRJ FO when there's thousands on the street with substantial experience after the furloughs at Comair and Independence Air?
Or if you get involved with a company like a PFJ/PFT school, run into some problems with training or some political issue and they hold the job above your head as a 'be good stick'? Your loans are already maxed out and your options at going elsewhere are limited.
There's so many ways to get burned when you pursue an aviation career. My best advice would be to find a couple of people who are now where you want to be in the future and absorb every word they've got to say.
You can get it done quickly of course, but you'll have to pay the piper down the road.
Say you're a 300 CRJ FO and your company can't match the cost saving demands of it's contract carrier. If you get furloughed you're screwed because why would a company hire a 300 hr CRJ FO when there's thousands on the street with substantial experience after the furloughs at Comair and Independence Air?
Or if you get involved with a company like a PFJ/PFT school, run into some problems with training or some political issue and they hold the job above your head as a 'be good stick'? Your loans are already maxed out and your options at going elsewhere are limited.
There's so many ways to get burned when you pursue an aviation career. My best advice would be to find a couple of people who are now where you want to be in the future and absorb every word they've got to say.
supercell86
New Member
Maximillian_Jenius said:
check ur sniffer max, you don't smell, bs. If you do, it's not me. I'm trying to look at all my options, broaden my horizons a bit...maybe you should ask about the MSRP on the Maxima....maybe it's alot better deal, you don't know until you ask.......come on now.....as i said the only answer i'd like is similar to the one DE727 gave me......and it was short and simple....he said "Gulfstream" lol thats it. If you'd like to bust me or whatever, start another post, call it busting supercell86, and have fun....ok in terms of the spelling, yes I am in college, and take English comp. But its a message board, so if it's really THAT important that i use grammar in the utmost proper way, than i guess i will....after this post, lol.
supercell86
New Member
SteveC said:
Thank you so much for your wisdom, I will keep that in mind.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
supercell86 said:
My point on this board and in life isn't to bust you. But you were doing the "double talk" and I wanted to highlight that.
You asked about how the fastest way to get to right seat was...but not the best way. You say that you just wanted to know the fastest way to get three stripes on your sholder but you have no interest in going that route.
Hense my anology...I don't like sedans? I prefer coupes so if I prefer coupes why ask about sedans? Surely I'm not the only one who understands my thinking.
But I digress...I just wanted you to be more consise in your post is all.
-Matthew
NJA_Capt
Well-Known Member
You missed most of the points I was making, but to be brief I’ll just hit the key points. I did not bash your school or any other in my last post. I am glad you are happy with the one you are at.
However many they have when they stop looking for a short cut.finnerandr said:
We all thank you for that part. However, that wasn’t the point I was making. You said you “…would be more apt to being burned out from going to college first.” My point was that the trailblazers didn’t get burned out doing college first.
I meant if you have only attended one, how do you know it’s the best?
No, but I have walked out of more than one when I see a big F on the wall.
I’ll try another angle: There are thousands of OUT OF WORK high timed pilots out here that are not applying to positions at the Regional level. Why do you think the regionals aren’t trying to attract them instead of the 500 hour guys? Think about it.
finnerandr
New Member
NJA_Capt said:
I never claimed that it was the best.
NJA_Capt said:
You have a good point on that one.
NJA Capt, I highly respect your opinion as well as the opinions of any career pilots on this board. I hope noone including yourself took offense to my being so quick to defend my school. I have for too long sat back and watched people bash this school when they know absolutely nothing about it other than they get low time pilots hired. It is the best choice for me at this point in my life and it will get me to where I want to go. Its kind of like religion; Catholics, Lutherans, Baptists, Episcopalians, etc are all seeking God, they just go about it a different way. Are some of these groups necessarily better than the others? This relates to flying in that we all go about it a different way, but are seeking the same end result. I truly hope to be working with some of you in the future! You are all great people from what I can tell.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
CLR4ILS said:
This coming from you....Who is sittin pretty at UPS in 757/767 and who is in SDL probably barely flying and not even in the industry?
There are many avenues to becoming a pilot. Be it the FBO route,the academies et al Pan Am,FSI, MAPD,Comair. Don might prefer the traditional FBO route vs. the ab-intio. I think his main issue is with the mega academies advertising more then anything else.
I think your opinion would be better respected (at least by me) if you had several thousand hours under your belt and you flew mainline/cargo.
Maybe your the dork!
-Matthew
supercell86
New Member
"I’ll try another angle: There are thousands of OUT OF WORK high timed pilots out here that are not applying to positions at the Regional level. Why do you think the regionals aren’t trying to attract them instead of the 500 hour guys? Think about it."
Must be for a great reason that we don't know about. Maybe their eyes aren't as good, but probaly because they want to take low time pilots and make them their "own". What I mean is that these 1000000000 hour pilots are too set in their ways, why would THEY want to fly for a regional airline??
On another note two things.....my grammar is better, lol
and second, I'm so proud that my post made it to four pages in 1 1/2 days.....obviously this is a hot topic, haha
Must be for a great reason that we don't know about. Maybe their eyes aren't as good, but probaly because they want to take low time pilots and make them their "own". What I mean is that these 1000000000 hour pilots are too set in their ways, why would THEY want to fly for a regional airline??
On another note two things.....my grammar is better, lol
and second, I'm so proud that my post made it to four pages in 1 1/2 days.....obviously this is a hot topic, haha
CLR4ILS
Well-Known Member
SUPERCELL86
Do some more research beyond the magazines. Get to know some good pilots in the industry outside of these forums. Pick three or so schools that have programs that interest you and go tour them.
You are "green" with respect to pilot training. We all have been there, even know it all DE727. Take your time and do the research properly. Break down the programs with respect to quality, price, instrument training (in a twin etc), multi engine time (important), Time frame to complete, A/C MX and availablility, and the schools reputation.
Be sure to get a copy of the syllabus, SOP, and checklist/procedures for the school during each tour. Go home and compare.
FlightSafetys program is top notch. Is there cheaper out there? yes. You get what you pay for in everything in life....
Good luck,
ILS
Do some more research beyond the magazines. Get to know some good pilots in the industry outside of these forums. Pick three or so schools that have programs that interest you and go tour them.
You are "green" with respect to pilot training. We all have been there, even know it all DE727. Take your time and do the research properly. Break down the programs with respect to quality, price, instrument training (in a twin etc), multi engine time (important), Time frame to complete, A/C MX and availablility, and the schools reputation.
Be sure to get a copy of the syllabus, SOP, and checklist/procedures for the school during each tour. Go home and compare.
FlightSafetys program is top notch. Is there cheaper out there? yes. You get what you pay for in everything in life....
Good luck,
ILS
OldTownPilot
Well-Known Member
Lets see: Fastest way to a regional is to go to gulfstream, and since once you are there no one else will hire you, you will have to wait for a major to go on strike then you can SCAB there after all you will have the scab connections 'cause gulfstream is run by a bunch of scabs.
Thats the fastest way, but you are undermining all of our lives with your decisions when you do that. Yes, myself, Doug, Don, and even yourself.
Oh, yeah good luck trying to get a jumpseat after you scab.
My dad is a FO at Continental. He could have scabed durring the strike (gaining 10 YEARS of seniority), and now hold basicly the same trips from the left seat, but he is much better off not having done so.
Thats the fastest way, but you are undermining all of our lives with your decisions when you do that. Yes, myself, Doug, Don, and even yourself.
Oh, yeah good luck trying to get a jumpseat after you scab.
My dad is a FO at Continental. He could have scabed durring the strike (gaining 10 YEARS of seniority), and now hold basicly the same trips from the left seat, but he is much better off not having done so.
CLR4ILS
Well-Known Member
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Not everybody that lands a major slot is always right about everything. I do not bow down to Don like some of you just because he made it to a major. His opinion means nothing to me (UPS or Not) when he talks •! about one of the best flight training organizations in the world (More so in the past, he has been kinder to FSA lately).
I will agree that alot of schools out there mislead the newbies with their rediculous marketing ploys. I do not like those schools anymore than the rest of you. I believe in schools that have proven track records with respect to quality, and customer satisfaction. If you can point me in the direction of an FBO operation that is of quality, then I will help push that school and get their name out there.
With respect to me and how much i have been flying..... I fly enough to satisfy my love for aviation. I will fly even more when I buy my new plane in a few weeks.
With respect to who is in a better position..... lets see, he is at UPS with a salary of probably $150K as an F/O and He is gone from his family quite often (if he has one). I am sitting on a couple acres in yes.... North Scottsdale with a salary that triples his and I am home with my beautiful wife and daughter every night. I can afford to fly everyday if I wish and I still get to watch my daughter grow up.
Point being..... not that my wife and I are financially secure, but rather that I am home with my family and have a salary that I cannot touch at a regional or major. So who is sitting better? The opinion can change from person to person.
Dork I am not....smart I am....
ILS
supercell86
New Member
I agree....people with thousands of hours may have experienced alot more, and therefore may know alot more. But they are also at a disadvantage. They aren't as aware of the new technology that can get low time pilot as qualified as high time pilots. They say they do, but do they really? Most of them probably do, because they don't live in caves, but maybe they just haven't accepted it yet....soon they will when EVERYONE is being hired with 400TT. I'm not saying that people getting hired at 400TT is great, but with the new technology i think it isn't too too bad.