academy and costs, can't figure it out

Re: academy and costs, can\'t figure it out

I have no intention of putting my flight school on my resume, unless I'm applying for a job at that same school, and even then, most of that will be discussed in the cover letter. All there will be is TT, Multi, Multi-PIC, etc and the litany of ratings. Not that I would be ashamed to put the name down at all (ATP)...but it's extraneous information, and resumes should be as succinct as possible. I'm still trying to figure out how to get mine down to one page!
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Re: academy and costs, can\'t figure it out

I think they way ATP offers their program at a very competitive price is because they get max prodction out of each and every employee that they have. THey really know how to keep costs down. One example is a marketing department. ATP doesnt really have one like FSI, Pan Am or DCA. When you come to take a tour of the facilities, You dont meet with "joe the tour guide", you get "Joe the instuctor". And you should see how hard the VPs of the company work. I can assure they do not work a 9-5 shift. They put in lvery long days. The dispatchers work almost around the clock.

As far as efficency i have yet to see a company better at it than ATP. A flight school is a very high cost operation, ATP has figured out to get the most out of each employee and keep costs down.

And interviews. ATP doesnt guarentee you an interview like some schools. But they do help out the instructors in getting them. Chatauqua (sp?) Airlines mins are 1500 and 300 multi. ATP instructors have been getting interviews with less because of the work done by some of the higher ups. So tho we dont advertise it. Interviews do come up.

-Brian
 
Re: academy and costs, can\'t figure it out

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I have no intention of putting my flight school on my resume, unless I'm applying for a job at that same school, and even then, most of that will be discussed in the cover letter.

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on where you do it. Some of us don't have much of an option.
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Re: academy and costs, can\'t figure it out

Plus its not like you are interviewing with an airline right after you finish your CFI, CFII, MEI and saying hey look it only took me two weeks to get this or it took me six months to get this! Common sense would tell you that it would be your experience and credentials actually flight instructing, not how long it took.

Back to my question before someone turned this into a flame war. How do other academies compete with ATP? I know sometimes people with to do college degree and flight training simutaneously so please excuse this...ratings and flying only.
 
Re: academy and costs, can\'t figure it out

Until some folks who have actual experience going to any of these schools give you a reply, let me say this:

Look at what you get for your money. If ATP, a very reputable school in the industry, gets you the same results as some of the $50K schools, GREAT! I went to ATP for my ATP written and rating and I was thoroughly satisfied. I don't know anything about their career pilot program, so I can't speak for that. I just know these "other" schools charge a #&%@ load of money,,,,,,,and for what? An airline interview? So what! Get your ratings, experience and contacts and go get your own airline interview. Of course this is just my opinion. I just think these big academies are a BIG rip off. However, I say that in a monetary sense, not quality of training. I'm sure FSI, DCA and Pan Am do a great job of training pilots. I just can't justify the cost at all. Like I said earlier, so you get an regional airline interview,,,,,,SO WHAT.
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I hope this makes sense and you can understand the nuts and bolts of it. Obviously I have an opinion on this matter, but just try to concentrate on the logic. Good luck man!
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Re: academy and costs, can\'t figure it out

[ QUOTE ]
You dont meet with "joe the tour guide", you get "Joe the instuctor".

-Brian

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Yep, I can attest to that fact. Because Brian (Blee256), "the instructor", was my tour guide when I showed up unexpectedly at the Jax ATP.
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Brian, I was the guy you gave a tour to on your last day (I think) of instructing over at Jax. I was impressed by ATP's operation, and would definitely go there if only they took GI Bill bennies.
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Re: academy and costs, can\'t figure it out

When it came to the big academies, I wasn't up for spending almost twice as much so that I could fly brand new planes with a/c, wear a uniform, and be guaranteed an interview. For a lot less, I fly very well maintained planes with good, solid equipment and avionics, get great instruction, and have seen 4 of our instructors head off for great aviation jobs in the last few months without school sponsored interviews.

There are certainly people who loved the education they got at the academies and don't regret the money they laid out, but I'm perfectly happy with my instruction, don't think I'll have any trouble getting a job, and spent a lot less than what others have. The point of my previous post was that ATP's price isn't all that unusual. There are a number of other schools out there who are a bit smaller than the academies but which offer similar time frames, lower costs, and excellent instruction and employment opportunities without the costs of new planes, heavy advertising, and inaccessible management.

The academies weren't right for me and don't feel that I've missed out on anything by not going that route. In fact, I think I've gained quite a bit by doing it the way that I have.

Check all of your options and make your choice based on visits and experience rather than ads and costly marketing campaigns. Find what's right for you and jump on it!
 
Re: academy and costs, can\'t figure it out

[ QUOTE ]
I'm sure FSI, DCA and Pan Am do a great job of training pilots. I just can't justify the cost at all. Like I said earlier, so you get an regional airline interview,,,,,,SO WHAT.


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As an instructor at FSI I don't have anything negative to say about ATP. But the two schools offer entirely different approaches to flight training. I think it's safe to say people have been successfull in both programs. It really depends on the student. If your able to study on your own and knock out your CFI ratings in 14 days more power to you. Took me 4 months full time at FSI with a break for 9/11 as a comparison.

One thing for the record FSI does not currently have any regional airline direct track programs or promise any interviews......
 
Re: academy and costs, can\'t figure it out

[ QUOTE ]

Back to my question before someone turned this into a flame war. How do other academies compete with ATP? I know sometimes people with to do college degree and flight training simutaneously so please excuse this...ratings and flying only.

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I looked at ATP back when I was "making the decision" and they did not have any type of degree program...just ratings. If you add in the cost and time of getting a good degree also, then the price becomes more comparable to the academies/college flight programs. (unless ATP now offers some type of degree....I'm actually kind of out of the loop.)

I would not venture out into the job market with only my ratings and a nice suit, and at ATP that is all you will have after $35000. But still I hear it is a very intense and well done program, so eventhough I did not recieve my training from ATP I have heard great things.
 
Re: academy and costs, can\'t figure it out

Seeing as I already have a college degree, i'm only interested in ratings.
 
Re: academy and costs, can\'t figure it out

Anyone going to argue for any of the other academies.. that's the kind of refs i'm looking for?
 
Re: academy and costs, can\'t figure it out

The arguements are all in the Flight Training section of the forums. Things are pretty well hashed out there, I think. Opinions off all kinds . . .
 
Re: academy and costs, can\'t figure it out

Keep in mind, academies are not always more expensive. In my case it was actually cheaper. In the NY area flight time is so expensive that FSI actually cost less, and I got everything done much faster. I felt the instruction was top notch, and now that I am back in the NY area instructing, I have no doubt it was superior from both a facilities/equipment perspective, and also from a teaching aspect as well. There is no way I could have finished my ratings as quickly at my local FBO's and I don't think I would have had the same knowledge base.

Just my experience though
 
Re: academy and costs, can\'t figure it out

Also keep in mind that while going to an academy, you cannot work and will not have an income.

So, in the end, it IS more expensive because that is several months of money going out - none coming in.

In the almost two years I've been working on my ratings, I've brought in over $80K - maybe more... and spent only $25K on my ratings.

You do the math.

I was not in a rush to hurry up and wait as is the case with some of the academy guys who started their trainging the same time I did. I can list more than a handful who STILL haven't found a job flying.

I'll finish my initial CFI almost 2 years EXACTLY from the date I took my first flight - and just now things are starting to pick up.
 
Re: academy and costs, can\'t figure it out

Glad everything worked out for you R2F. But that was your individual case as well, not everybody's. Not everybody has jobs that will allow them to pursue flight training...even part-time. Not everybody has an abundant amount of choices from which to choose where to do their training. Not everybody has the time to spend 2 years or more for ratings.

I'm not trying to say anything bad about the way anybody here did anything, or anything good about the way I did things. We all evaluate our own position in life, look at the options, and make the best decisions for ourselves....and that is the only advice that people should be giving out on this or any forum.
 
Re: academy and costs, can\'t figure it out

Totally agree with everything you said, Cime - just offering the other side. There is an alternative... and it can and does work.

That's all I'm saying.
 
Re: academy and costs, can\'t figure it out

Did I mention,,,,,,,,,NO ONE CARES!
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Just Kiddin'. R2F does have a good point though. Being able to work and train is a big advantage.

Oh, and Cime, I have a question for you: How is it that you or whoever you were talking about couldn't wait 2 years to get your ratings? What do you have to do that's so pressing? Especially in this market. Is it your age? Actually, I don't even think that really matters in this market, unless you want to be a regional airline pilot your entire career. Then I could maybe, possibly see the logic. Please enlighten me.
 
Re: academy and costs, can\'t figure it out

It certainly depends on the individual! Life and bills sometimes get in the way, they did for me preventing me from quitting cold turkey and heading off to the sunshine to train full time. I do same as R2F, work full time train on side. Have been extremely fortunate to pay cash as I go. As a result, it's been slower. Started flying May 02 wrapping up my Comm'l now. I'm not sure I'm headed to the airlines so there's no fire drill needed for me. Also due to my previous statement, 'guaranteed' interviews aren't important to me either. I've not even finished my comm'l and have lucked (networked?) my way into a very strong possibility of a job. Plus have great shot at instructing at my FBO on the side once I get my CFIs finished off.

That worked for me. Academies work for others. If I was younger perhaps I would have taken a different route.

Sarah
 
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