AA hiring rate and Envoy flow rant

eightballfreight said:
Ok, that is a given and that is what I'm getting at.
All airlines hire people they regret and I'd argue that no d'bag has ever left aviation because ALL the HR departments read him like a book. All "less desirables" will be hired eventually by someone, so what do those two days of sit downs really accomplish?
I don't proclaim to know the answer to problems but I'm skeptical that any flight department has a dramatically higher or lower percentage of undesirables due to hiring practices.
Just a wager.
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True. But we are referring to a process of at least attempting to weed out the bad apples which is what a 1 or 2 day HR interview can do. A flow doesn't give a chance to weed out the bad ones and we all know regional interviews are a joke because they are desperate. So those bad apples would go unchecked entirely if given a mainline job via flow.
 
Nick said:
I'm curious as to how you acquired the notion of a flow-eligible pilot at any airline being duped into staying at a crappy job for longer?

Do you know of any currently flow agreements that require pilots to use the flow? i.e., prohibit them from applying for any job and putting in their two weeks notice if they feel like taking a new job?
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Seriously?

Why else on God's green earth would flow exist? Do you really think any of the mainline carriers offering said flow are having any recruiting or screening issues with applicants? Are they feeling bad because the outsourcing of they're flying makes life tougher for the employees of they're regional partners'?

No. Because it helps keep an unruly and restless work force at bay.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
A pilot is a pilot is a pilot. If you think any of these screening methods are doing jack, you're fooling yourself.
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A few weeks ago I had a captain see Baltimore 10 minutes after takeoff from IAD. They asked "is that New York City?"

I've had a captain try to fight someone in front of the terminal in HPN.

I can go on and on.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
True. But we are referring to a process of at least attempting to weed out the bad apples which is what a 1 or 2 day HR interview can do. A flow doesn't give a chance to weed out the bad ones and we all know regional interviews are a joke because they are desperate. So those bad apples would go unchecked entirely if given a mainline job via flow.
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And then get canned during their probie year.

I mean, not that that's happened at all recently.
 
Reading the "Delta hiring" thread it seems they are almost all mil off the street now too (at least the successful ones), mostly because of their flows from Pinnacle, Mesaba(?), Compass, etc.

AA is going to be restricted for longer than Delta, and it seems United is the best chance for a commuter guy to get hired off the street right now and for the next 2 years +/-. So if I were looking for a job at a legacy I would be focusing more of my energy toward that company.

I would also say that a legacy isn't all that and going to a very vibrant and growing company would also be a great career move. The ULCC's are chipping away at the legacy market share.
 
wheelsup said:
Reading the "Delta hiring" thread it seems they are almost all mil off the street now too (at least the successful ones), mostly because of their flows from Pinnacle, Mesaba(?), Compass, etc.
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Assuming that Delta thread is correct that means flows/required interviews have locked non-flows out of there and possibly AA.

I don't like the idea of flows. It reduces a pilot's amount of opportunities.
 
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eightballfreight said:
While I agree that a flow can usher in weak pilots. I'd strongly argue that 20 minutes in a random sim and a good grilling by HR dorks doesn't exaclty tell much either about this pilots ability.
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No but a history of training failures and other possible issues while at a regional can come to light which would put people at the bottom of the list.

The actual interview isn't the best at filtering people but the process to get their does help.
 
Maurus said:
Pilots are pilots. Thing is that a flow will guarantee the worst to get the job while requiring an interview would at least give them one more chance at filtering the bad apples out.

Just think if Mesa got a flow. Their interview process is basically "did person X complete training?" Is that a pilot pool you would want to flow to a legacy?

Delta has done a better job with their regionals when it comes to how they hire but AA and United don't seem to care as long as the flying is staffed.
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Don't uh, tell that to anyone who worked at Comair.
 
Maurus said:
Assuming that Delta thread is correct that means flows/required interviews have locked out of there and possibly AA.

I don't like the idea of flows. It reduces a pilot's amount of opportunities.
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Yep. AA (combined) is hiring something like 40-50 a month. 20+ from Eagle, 4 from PSA and 3 from PDT. The rest are almost entirely military. Apparently the last class had no street hires at all on the AA side. The funny thing is guys who are getting Airways class dates are declining it, wanting an AA date. Not sure what the mentality is there, hopefully the company tells them to shove it and moves on to the next guy.

Assuming a direct flow like Eagle and Compass have, personally, the very idea of them really underscore the fact that those pilots are doing the exact same job as their mainline counterparts.
 
T-Gates said:
If true, that is the single most stupid thing I have ever heard. Unless you happen to have offers from other legacies. Even then, monumentally ill-advised.
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Yeah, that is stupid. I would gladly take an Airways slot. It might suck (in comparison to other legacies) for a year or two but the seniority gain would be well worth the loss.
 
Maurus said:
I don't like the idea of flows. It reduces a pilot's amount of opportunities.
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Frankly, no one is entitled to an opportunity at any carrier. When a pilot is already flying Delta (or insert any mainline carrier) passengers in planes painted in Delta colors, he should get the opportunity at that mainline seniority number before any outsider.

Maurus said:
No but a history of training failures and other possible issues while at a regional can come to light which would put people at the bottom of the list.

The actual interview isn't the best at filtering people but the process to get their does help.
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Pure nonsense. The mainline carrier already has access to all of that information, and they can direct their regional partners to weed those people out. Remember, the mainline carrier is in control. The regional is a company in name only. It's really just mainline's bitch.
 
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