SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Sure they can. These aren't the flows of the early '00s. Completely different animal.
AA hiring rate and Envoy flow rant
- Thread starter HobGoblin
- Start date
Sure they can. These aren't the flows of the early '00s. Completely different animal.
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
Exactly. If a flow were to manifest itself at my shop tomorrow I'd find myself behind some absolutely terrible people in line for a mainline job.
As of now I can only think of one guy that leaves me dumbfounded that he is moving on. Terrible pilot with a worse attitude. No stranger to sensitivity training and other discipline. Has a jet blue class date and an interview with United this month.
Other than that, everyone else who has moved on has been at least a solid "meh" but usually they're great people who deserve it. The system mostly works.
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
Sloths are animals too. Not very capable ones..but animals none the less.
Mainline airlines for the most part employ a different caliber of people. These people exist at the regional level, but due to screening differences, not everyone meets that standard. Throw in pilot culture and I think an interview is extremely important. Even if I don't make the cut.
There are a lot of people out there that are lazy. They look for shortcuts to an easy path instead of working to make themselves the best qualified candidate. Flows will reward this behavior and weaken the pilot culture at said carrier.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
It's sad that you've actually bought that line of crap. Pilots are pilots.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
You missed his point. "Pilots are pilots" but look at ALPA CBAs between regionals and legacy/majors.
Nick
Well-Known Member
I'm curious as to how you acquired the notion of a flow-eligible pilot at any airline being duped into staying at a crappy job for longer?
Do you know of any currently flow agreements that require pilots to use the flow? i.e., prohibit them from applying for any job and putting in their two weeks notice if they feel like taking a new job?
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
That's only because legacy/majors actually make a whole lot more money. There's just as big a percentage of idiots and bad pilots at the majors as there at the regionals. The only difference is that the general level of knowledge and life experience is slightly higher.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
For about a 6 month period US Airways wasn't taking anybody from PSA outside of the "pref interview", but I think that stopped.
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
I've heard something like that before somewhere...
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
There was a time quite a few regionals were posting record profits and making tons of money (even for their size) yet it did not show in any pilot CBA.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I'd reckon I've spent a lot more time on jumpseats than you have. Pilots are pilots.
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
Pilots are pilots. Thing is that a flow will guarantee the worst to get the job while requiring an interview would at least give them one more chance at filtering the bad apples out.
Just think if Mesa got a flow. Their interview process is basically "did person X complete training?" Is that a pilot pool you would want to flow to a legacy?
Delta has done a better job with their regionals when it comes to how they hire but AA and United don't seem to care as long as the flying is staffed.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
A pilot is a pilot is a pilot. If you think any of these screening methods are doing jack, you're fooling yourself.
Autothrust Blue
"Well, on the Brasilia..."
Let me tell you about a phone call I got the other day...
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
A pilot is an individual, and like any individual, they come in different flavors.
The screening methods are effective. Sometimes a good apple gets weeded out but usually (and a lot more so) it's the bad apples that get weeded out. Problem with pilots is that we all think we are good and that an airline would have no reason not to hire us, and that's just not the reality.
In my VX interview, 5 out of 11 were hired and of the 6 not hired, I was not surprised for 5 of them based on their actions/responses of the group interview.
eightballfreight
Mission accomplished
While I agree that a flow can usher in weak pilots. I'd strongly argue that 20 minutes in a random sim and a good grilling by HR dorks doesn't exaclty tell much either about this pilots ability.
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Sim evals are gone from nearly all major/legacy airlines. Gone are the days they look for ability. It is assumed you are a pilot, know how to fly a plane, and will be trainable. What HR is looking for are the personable/people skills for pilots. The ability to work well with others, be likeable, good attitude, treat this job more than just "behind the cockpit door only" , etc. etc.
eightballfreight
Mission accomplished
Ok, that is a given and that is what I'm getting at.
All airlines hire people they regret and I'd argue that no d'bag has ever left aviation because ALL the HR departments read him like a book. All "less desirables" will be hired eventually by someone, so what do those two days of sit downs really accomplish?
I don't proclaim to know the answer to problems but I'm skeptical that any flight department has a dramatically higher or lower percentage of undesirables due to hiring practices.
Just a wager.
