AAPalmTree
Well-Known Member
Hahahahhahah. Thanks. I needed that.
AA hiring rate and Envoy flow rant
- Thread starter HobGoblin
- Start date
Hahahahhahah. Thanks. I needed that.
dasleben
That's just, like, your opinion, man
Amen. Flow is great if you have it. But, like those hired at Compass after 8/2010(ish), when it shuts off and only applies to certain segments of the pilot group, it's nothing more than a B-scale. Same job for less benefit.
It also probably annoys mainline pilots who had to actually earn the job, and allows bad apples to flow seamlessly to mainline.
Moreover, it annoys the rest of us because it clogs up the works and reduces the number of open "off-the-street" slots.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Everyone on property before Compass purchase by TSA will flow, whatever that date is. I believe that seniority list is done early next year. If you were hired by TSA to fly Compass then you won't flow.
The NWA pilots were in favor of the flow, they really didn't think regional guys were less than. I'm the first to admit, (for example NWA) some regional guys thought that just because they flew NWA purchased airplanes, with NWA paint, and NWA passengers, to NWA destinations, that they probably knew the job as well as anyone because when they flowed they'd be flying NWA purchased airplanes with NWA paint and NWA passengers to NWA destinations. What is more the pity, is those poor NWA pilots agreed with those silly regoinal guys. It's just sad really, so easy to get yourself wrapped up around facts instead of emotions, emotionally I KNOW those regoinal guys haven't earned any consideration. The fact Endeavor guys only interview for one day instead of 2 is mind blowing. Really they ought to interview for 4 days because they clearly don't know anything about the operation.
Delta bought NWA a while back and the Delta pilots have rarely, if ever said anything kind about the flow, the SSP, or anything to do with regionals to me. AA pilots stand up for the Eagle folks and decry the outrage that Eagle wouldn't be able to flow. United has regional pilot only job fairs. Seems like a majority of major pilots are OK with flows or giving regional guys special consideration even if the Delta guys aren't because... reasons/comair/reasons/comair/comair/comair.
Ah. Well there'll be plenty for you me and everyone else.
Eagle421flyer
Well-Known Member
Flows are great, when I got hired at XJT 14 years ago I was going to be at CAL in 2 years! Just 2 years it worked out great for me, bc of 9/11 the CAL guys flowed back and I got furloughed, then I spent the next 10 years at XJT bc they sold us off to pay for CALS pensions, sooo they did away with the flow. But it's all good now bc I work at CAL, oh wait no I don't.
** Entire post is sarcasm
*** on a serious note though, flows are only good for the people that have already flowed, I would never rely one to get to where I wanted to go. Like someone already mentioned that was the joke at XJT. To get hired at CAL you had to leave XJT and work somewhere else first.
** Entire post is sarcasm
*** on a serious note though, flows are only good for the people that have already flowed, I would never rely one to get to where I wanted to go. Like someone already mentioned that was the joke at XJT. To get hired at CAL you had to leave XJT and work somewhere else first.
Eagle421flyer
Well-Known Member
It's really both, with the regionals being desperate these days for pilots they can say " Come work for us and have a guaranteed flow to AA." It will attract new pilots (who don't know about flows). You're right too though, it keeps the more senior guys there thinking "someday soon" I will get the flow to AA. So it really does both, and yes there are some that the flow has worked for, after all some people have to flow so the company can claim that they have one.
falconvalley
Absentee Dad of the OOTSK, Runner, Cat Frustrator
That's funny...last time I checked, EVERYBODY knows the operation!
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
The big benefit of a flow is longevity control. It ensures that a pilot group will stay relatively junior and cheap for a duration of time. This allows for long range cost planning, which is what wins RFPs (and gets aircraft placed at WOs).
Gonzo
Well-Known Member
The 767 is a beast.
, I am not a fan of flows and never have been.
turbomax97
What can brown do for you?
I'm glad I'm not suffering alone. Funny how prepping gets harder the older ya getThe 767 is a beast.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Regional pilots who argue against flows remind me of blue collar workers who vote Republican because they think they'll be the rich guy someday without needing any help to get there.
Will you get hired at a major without a flow? Possibly. Maybe even probably. But not necessarily. I've seen airlines hire some of the worst pilots and biggest dooshbags while passing on the best guys. Why? Because some HR guy who's never flown an airplane said so. It's nice to have that flow in the back pocket just in case. And it also provides job security and seniority advancement at the regional carrier in the meantime.
Flows are the future. It's good for you, and it's good for the mainline carrier. Embrace it.
Will you get hired at a major without a flow? Possibly. Maybe even probably. But not necessarily. I've seen airlines hire some of the worst pilots and biggest dooshbags while passing on the best guys. Why? Because some HR guy who's never flown an airplane said so. It's nice to have that flow in the back pocket just in case. And it also provides job security and seniority advancement at the regional carrier in the meantime.
Flows are the future. It's good for you, and it's good for the mainline carrier. Embrace it.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
Actually it is the worst thing that could happen for me. Last thing I need is getting locked out of 1/3rd of the legacies just because I'm at the bottom of a seniority list. Getting paid 23k again is also not an option.
L-16B
Well-Known Member
I've never thought of it that way and you do make a point (minus the politics
). But I guess I'm too much of an optimist and would feel held back by the flow, especially if my regional had a flow where I wanted to end up. I remember back in the day the continental express guys would quit so they could get hired at continental sooner. But then again that was back when it was more who did you know rather than today's formula.
jynxyjoe
Queso King
Wait, did those guys get furloughed immediately afterwards or am I thinking of United (history fart).I've never thought of it that way and you do make a point (minus the politics
HVYMETALDRVR
Well-Known Member
Flow to me sounds like a suckers game to dupe people into staying at a crappy job longer. This industry isn't stable enough to wait around for something like that. I mean it does work for some people who get lucky and time it right, but I wouldn't wait around for years for it, maybe a year or two sure... But 5 to 10? No thanks!
L-16B
Well-Known Member
That must be united. Cal only furloughed 180 something in 2008, which is years after the express flow dissolved.
Maurus
The Great Gazoo
Flow backs to CAL Express caused express furloughs I do believe.
Ultimately a lot of the CAL Express guys got stringed along with their flow and ended up becoming lifers at XJT.
Unfortunately flow through programs don't have a good history and only work well at small airlines. Pilots at the larger regionals that encompass a majority of regional flying wouldn't benefit from a flow since mainline couldn't suck people up fast enough.
A flow at XJT for example would likely take over 8 years to get through the seniority list.
L-16B
Well-Known Member
I didn't even think about 9/11. That may be correct then.
Screaming_Emu
Joe Conventional
Cherokee_Cruiser
Bronteroc
Key is "hire some" of the d-bags. With a flow, you are guaranteeing to hire ALL d-bags.
I actually prefer HR to decide pilot hiring. It's a far more fair and balanced system then the buddy-buddy system.
