A/C down at KSDL
- Thread starter azmedic
- Start date
knot4u
Repeat Offender
That strut appears to be fully inflated with its trunnion intact and the actuator appears to be fully extended. I've rebuilt those MLG actuators a few times and they are built so down and locked is their happy place. There's a combination of springs, pistons and ball bearings that once in place require hydraulic pressure to unlock from the fully extended position. The down switch isn't some sort of proximity switch, it's not even what you might consider a microswitch, it screws into a bore on the cylinder that physically interfaces with the previously mentioned down lock piston. The point of all of this nonsense is I suspect the 35 had three green when they landed and then all hell broke loose. Someone has said the airplane had a previous runway excursion recently that damaged the left MLG. I'd suspect that gear was removed and everything was inspected and/or replaced afterwards to get the airplane flying again. In that picture the rear trunnion pin appears to be not present. I've never worked on that particular 35, but this looks like either a structural failure or poor MX. Everything I just wrote is speculation and should be treated appropriately.
I would be curious to know if the MLG strut separation was an initiating event, or a resultant event. Normal/hard touchdown? Also, Is there possibility of an early/inadverent nose wheel steering engagement on these models?
knot4u
Repeat Offender
I have no idea regarding a hard landing tearing one of the gear out, I'm not privy to that info. I'm just speculating based on pictures and video that've been publicly provided. Lear 35 NLG steering can be problematic, there's an "analog" version and a "digital" version and both have issues. It's early "steer by wire", there's no cables from the pedals to the nose and there's no tiller. Normally either one will just fail and the centering cam on the nose strut will keep the wheel centered until the the strut settles upon landing. The NLG wheel, actually all of the wheels, on a Lear 35 are pretty small and I'd guess an uncooperative steering system and tiny NLG wheel wouldn't have enough authority to impose enough of a load that would cause the MLG to fail. In the video I've seen it looks like the left MLG had failed before the airplane exited the runway. I also noticed that airplane seems to have the thrust reverser delete option so at least the Aeronca discussion doesn't need to get started again.
All very interesting observations and great technical info.
knot4u
Repeat Offender
Oof. I remember back when I worked at a place where people were assigned airplanes as crew chiefs (I was still pretty young), I was assigned two Lears, a 35 and a 36. The 35 had Aeroncas and two FMS's, the 36 had Dee Howards and 3 FMS's. One day I was walking through the hangars and one of my coworkers asked for a bit of assistance working on his airplane. His airplane was a 35 with no thrust reversers one FMS. I helped him but I was wondering what it must be like to walk through life without anyone challenging you.
T/O w/FSII
Well-Known Member
Hey @MikeD
How the hell do you get the (I’m assuming) FO out?
Would CFR go into the Lear through that tiny emergency exit to try and pull them out? How does that work? I saw they pulled the planes apart but I wonder what the timeline was on that.
I wonder if the engines were still running for some time unless the fuel control cables got yanked shut.
Crazy that 4 people and a dog got out.
How the hell do you get the (I’m assuming) FO out?
Would CFR go into the Lear through that tiny emergency exit to try and pull them out? How does that work? I saw they pulled the planes apart but I wonder what the timeline was on that.
I wonder if the engines were still running for some time unless the fuel control cables got yanked shut.
Crazy that 4 people and a dog got out.
The emergency exit, as it is, is too small to access the interior through in full gear, unless the SCBA is doffed. And even if that is done, the Lear cabin is so small, that extricating the Co-pilot from it, would be difficult due to cockpit access restrictions from the forward cabin. Either the Gulfstream can be towed away to clear the Lear wreckage and access gained from the forward left main cabin door to then access the cockpit with much more room. Or a K12 saw would have to be used to cut the fuselage open adjacent to the emergency exit, widening that access point and another cut made that removed the fuselage ceiling above the co-pilot along with at least a partial section of the right front of the forward windscreen; if the main cabin door access was either not able to be accomplished quickly or was not enough room to access the cockpit due to damage, if it was able to be accomplished.
In this accident, the normal entry door on the left forward was blocked and unusable due to it being up against the Gulfstream fuselage, hence needing to move the Gulfstream to make any access at that point possible. Only the overwing exit on the right side was useable. The engines remained running following the accident, with one engine flaming out in about 5 or so mins, and the second one having to be drowned by water/foam to shut it down about 5-10 mins after the first one. There was no immediate access to the throttles or fuel shutoffs due to the crush destruction of the cockpit; with the resultant loss of occupiable space contributing to the fatal injuries of the pilot.
K12 saw below, being used in a vehicle extrication cutting operation we worked.
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FlyingAccountant
Well-Known Member
The deceased pilot was 78 years old. Hmm.
ahw01
Well-Known Member
Motley Crue retiree labor?
I saw that too. I told my wife that, at 78, if I say "I want to go fly a jet around" to punch me in the crotch.
How long before the inevitable “78 year olds shouldn’t be flying jets around” screams start?
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Wardogg
Meat Popsicle
When insurance companies stop insuring them it’ll stop pretty quick.How long before the inevitable “78 year olds shouldn’t be flying jets around” screams start?
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Those saws are actually much lighter than they look. Around 30lbs if I remember correctly. Thats why they make you do the tool carry during the CPAT
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How long before the inevitable “78 year olds shouldn’t be flying jets around” screams start?
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It won't come, nor should it.
Thank goodness it wasn't a person of color or non-male as all we'd be hearing about in the news circuits is "OMG DEI"
KLB
Well-Known Member
Some guys just don't want to hang it up. NetJets finally forced retired a bunch of guys and they weren't happy about it over there. What was even more interesting was that EJM and NetJets are under the same umbrella and s bunch of those guys were forced retired also. I am also pretty certain that any company that does charter for EJM likely falls under the same guidelines. So essentially there are a bunch of unhappy older corporate pilots out there.
I had a lot of friends at work that as they approached retirement, they were looking into corporate aviation.
I'd usually tell them that their first problem is that they're an airline pilot and we're not used to the scope of corporate aviation or the pace. Moreover, a lot of operators don't want to deal with our primadonna aversion over cleaning aircraft, making hotel/transportation arrangements and all the other things that are baked right into the job. So at 70 years old, potentially loading bags and carrying around a phone you may have to answer might not be their cup of tea when you're coming from a multi-decade spanning career of sitting in the left seat, autoloading a flight plan and the agent saying "Are we good to close?" Point A to Point B, shut down checklist and play "Wordle" until the agent, again, says "are we good to close?" an hour later.
You forgot to add “….a career of always avoiding phone calls from crew scheduling.”
Because now, it's literally the person signing your check that wants to go somewhere they're willing to drop thousands of dollars on in the multi million dollar jet that was purchased for a very specific reason.