A/C down at KSDL

derg said:
I had a lot of friends at work that as they approached retirement, they were looking into corporate aviation.

I'd usually tell them that their first problem is that they're an airline pilot and we're not used to the scope of corporate aviation or the pace. Moreover, a lot of operators don't want to deal with our primadonna aversion over cleaning aircraft, making hotel/transportation arrangements and all the other things that are baked right into the job. So at 70 years old, potentially loading bags and carrying around a phone you may have to answer might not be their cup of tea when you're coming from a multi-decade spanning career of sitting in the left seat, autoloading a flight plan and the agent saying "Are we good to close?" Point A to Point B, shut down checklist and play "Wordle" until the agent, again, says "are we good to close?" an hour later.
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The thing is when a retired airline guy comes in after retiring and expects one of the cushy gigs. The likelihood of a retired guy getting one of those gigs right off the bat is very unlikely.
 
KLB said:
The thing is when a retired airline guy comes in after retiring and expects one of the cushy gigs. The likelihood of a retired guy getting one of those gigs right off the bat is very unlikely.
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I learned a few lessons when I rolled up to Signature with @DPApilot in the Hawker when it comes to the hierarchal nature of corporate aviation.
 
Wardogg said:
When insurance companies stop insuring them it’ll stop pretty quick.
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Plenty of them do, and the owners go uninsured, or tell the insurance company that they’ve been my pilot for X or XX years and they’re going to be my pilot so figure it out. Two of my mentors fall into this category - still flying professionally as septuagenarians. They fly for owners that are low utilization compared to a fast paced 91k/135 operations, so it works. In this case, a late model Honda Accord with a full tank of gas is almost worth more than a 40 year old Learjet (and less maintenance).
 
derg said:
I learned a few lessons when I rolled up to Signature with @DPApilot in the Hawker when it comes to the hierarchal nature of corporate aviation.
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That's not to say that a retired guy couldn't get into an older Gulfstream or Global Express right off the bat. But it would be for a company that will fly the living daylights out of you with transcons and ocean crossings. They'd stuff as many flights in as possible in 2.5 weeks of flying....and the equipment will be worn and shoddy.
 
KLB said:
The thing is when a retired airline guy comes in after retiring and expects one of the cushy gigs. The likelihood of a retired guy getting one of those gigs right off the bat is very unlikely.
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Ironically this pilot was a retired sim instructor at WN
 
CFI A&P said:
Plenty of them do, and the owners go uninsured, or tell the insurance company that they’ve been my pilot for X or XX years and they’re going to be my pilot so figure it out. Two of my mentors fall into this category - still flying professionally as septuagenarians. They fly for owners that are low utilization compared to a fast paced 91k/135 operations, so it works. In this case, a late model Honda Accord with a full tank of gas is almost worth more than a 40 year old Learjet (and less maintenance).
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We have 2 gents at our shop as well. Great guys and great pilots. I was talking with one recently that expressed his desire to retire soon. Saying, he'd rather make the choice to quit flying before someone else had to make the choice for him. I also heard the other one may be on his way out by the end of the year as well.
 
derg said:
Because now, it's literally the person signing your check that wants to go somewhere they're willing to drop thousands of dollars on in the multi million dollar jet that was purchased for a very specific reason.
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Wasn’t there some study a while back that showed that retired airline pilots have a better than average chance at not living long past 65?
 
MikeD said:
Wasn’t there some study a while back that showed that retired airline pilots have a better than average chance at not living long past 65?
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66.49 years, but it hasn't been updated for a few years.
 
MikeD said:
The emergency exit, as it is, is too small to access the interior through in full gear, unless the SCBA is doffed. And even if that is done, the Lear cabin is so small, that extricating the Co-pilot from it, would be difficult due to cockpit access restrictions from the forward cabin. Either the Gulfstream can be towed away to clear the Lear wreckage and access gained from the forward left main cabin door to then access the cockpit with much more room. Or a K12 saw would have to be used to cut the fuselage open adjacent to the emergency exit, widening that access point and another cut made that removed the fuselage ceiling above the co-pilot along with at least a partial section of the right front of the forward windscreen; if the main cabin door access was either not able to be accomplished quickly or was not enough room to access the cockpit due to damage, if it was able to be accomplished.

In this accident, the normal entry door on the left forward was blocked and unusable due to it being up against the Gulfstream fuselage, hence needing to move the Gulfstream to make any access at that point possible. Only the overwing exit on the right side was useable. The engines remained running following the accident, with one engine flaming out in about 5 or so mins, and the second one having to be drowned by water/foam to shut it down about 5-10 mins after the first one. There was no immediate access to the throttles or fuel shutoffs due to the crush destruction of the cockpit; with the resultant loss of occupiable space contributing to the fatal injuries of the pilot.

K12 saw below, being used in a vehicle extrication cutting operation we worked.
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View attachment 82050
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That’s actually nuts. I couldn’t imagine being stuck in a situation like that waiting for help with engines running. Thanks for the all access pass into your world. Wild.


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I plan to be doing something other than operating appliances for my Betters when I'm 65, let alone 78. That said, I flew with a couple of guys in their 70s back in the charter days who were sharp as a tack, and didn't have any ego-problems about being in an ancient piece of junk and occasionally arthritically trying to help me load the bags.

I flew with a few others who definitely should have quit years earlier. Depends on the individual and their telomeres, etc.
 
MikeD said:
The emergency exit, as it is, is too small to access the interior through in full gear, unless the SCBA is doffed. And even if that is done, the Lear cabin is so small, that extricating the Co-pilot from it, would be difficult due to cockpit access restrictions from the forward cabin. Either the Gulfstream can be towed away to clear the Lear wreckage and access gained from the forward left main cabin door to then access the cockpit with much more room. Or a K12 saw would have to be used to cut the fuselage open adjacent to the emergency exit, widening that access point and another cut made that removed the fuselage ceiling above the co-pilot along with at least a partial section of the right front of the forward windscreen; if the main cabin door access was either not able to be accomplished quickly or was not enough room to access the cockpit due to damage, if it was able to be accomplished.

In this accident, the normal entry door on the left forward was blocked and unusable due to it being up against the Gulfstream fuselage, hence needing to move the Gulfstream to make any access at that point possible. Only the overwing exit on the right side was useable. The engines remained running following the accident, with one engine flaming out in about 5 or so mins, and the second one having to be drowned by water/foam to shut it down about 5-10 mins after the first one. There was no immediate access to the throttles or fuel shutoffs due to the crush destruction of the cockpit; with the resultant loss of occupiable space contributing to the fatal injuries of the pilot.

K12 saw below, being used in a vehicle extrication cutting operation we worked.
.
View attachment 82050
Click to expand...
I saw a photo of the aircraft after the accident that showed they'd likely taken one of those saws and "enlarged" the emergency overwing exit on the right side of the fuselage, it did not show whether or not the MED or right side of the cockpit had been accessed in the same manner. The power levers on the 35 are also the fuel cutoffs, there's no fuel cocks. If the engines were still running and they couldn't access the cockpit, would they even know you have to pull the little knobs on the levers to get them to go from idle to cutoff? It's an easy enough one handed operation if you know how it works and you have big hands.
 
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