L-16B
Well-Known Member
And my grandfather bombed your grandparents in WWII. We kicked your butt, I have no idea how you were ever even a sperm at one point in your life....
9L, 9E, XJ JCBA executive summary
- Thread starter sherpa
- Start date
And my grandfather bombed your grandparents in WWII. We kicked your butt, I have no idea how you were ever even a sperm at one point in your life....
L-16B
Well-Known Member
I think I did a BTV turn with you a couple days ago?
The Juice
Well-Known Member
It should not be an emotional issue because there should not be emotions in it, this is business. This is a good deal for the Colgan pilots and it is not about how we feel we are being disrespected compared to other airlines, it is about this deal being far better than we could have gotten on our own and a huge step for our pilot group.
You have to look at big picture, this is our first contract and at the end we will have industry leading pay in many catergories that we can build on for the next CBA. This is not something that can be done overnight and something that can be done on the first contract, the idea is to build on the progress and make gains for the groups and this TA does just that.
People get all worked up by looking at it as two diferent pay scales, this is not the case. The "Colgan rates" are not Colgan rates but the new rates which are a huge increase from where we were so I ask you this, pick a solution.
1)Make current MSA pilots take a pay cut to the new rates
or
2)Establish these new rates which are a large increase and allow some negotiating capital to be used in other areas of benefits.
I can assusre you that if you just want the new rates to match the current MSA rates that extra money will have to come from somewhere, so who should take the cut? Im sure we could trade vacation slide for the extra $1 on the Saab, is that the answer? It is a business and the company will not give something for nothing so there has to be a tradeoff.
The Juice
Well-Known Member
Could not have said it better. Crunch the numbers and look what happens. Want to have some fun, look at what you will be making every year when you get your two raises (DOS+Longevity). Since the Q's catch up to the RJ's the raises are pretty aggressive.
sherpa
Well-Known Member
We covered this so many times. After sperm was developed via nutrients of the flesh of your grandfather, esp. the liver (very good with Sake and a hot bowl of steamed rice), it became resistant to radiation. additionally, after the fallout, the local rice supply became genetically enhanced to fuel massive development in the areas of my people's brain involved in math and photography which we then applied to engineering cars (of which you own one), calculators, and other electronic products. These same genetic enhancements were then passed on to me. Thanks uncle B-25, you're the best!!:crazy:
Are you Phil Trenary?
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
I think some people are looking at the DOS+long. in their current year only. When you read it, remember, move 4 years down in longevity, and then over to the DOS+4 area. Most of the Q CA's on board right now will be getting paid $80+/hr at that point.
L-16B
Well-Known Member
Your just mad your parents didn't name you after an airplane!! :yup: Your life is pointless, lets go get sushi again.
L-16B
Well-Known Member
No, his name is clearly displayed in his profile. He's on a prison computer right now, so it may take a while for him to get back to you.
sherpa
Well-Known Member
nevermind.
on second thought. I will. I have the background. I know how and why this all happened. I am still not happy with that rate and do not feel it reflects what we on the Q have put up with over the past three years to set the stage for a VERY profitable and successful program going forward. There were huge growing pains that would have lead to the utter failure of the program if not for the input, and sacrifices of me and all the other pilots who operated and participated via the ALPA relationship with mgmt to get this program going in the right direction. This is a huge profit center that owes us a lot.
This really doesn't have much to do with money here.
We disagree that's all. No biggie.
Cruise
Well-Known Member
I'm trying to hook a brother up, but your PM box is full. Time for some field day action on that thing......
Cruise
Well-Known Member
You know, I'm not happy about the rates either. I thought they would (and should) be higher. BUT, after getting many, many updates from the JNC, I understand why we are where we are now. This is also why our pilots need to educate themselves on the TA, instead of simply moaning about it on the internet.
Bottom line is: overall, this is a good deal for ALL of us. Not a single pilot is going to lose anything at the end of the day. Yes, some sacrifices will be made; however, we are all going to be better off having this agreement vs. going it alone as three (soon to be two) separate carriers.
The Juice
Well-Known Member
No, it is just reality. It reminds me of a FA I spoke to here at Colgan who did not understand why the FA's would have to give some things in order to make improvements in other areas. I asked if she would give up holiday pay for better work rules, obviously work rules pay more in the long run than holiday pay. She did not understand why you have to give anything up to make larger improvements in other area. It is negotiating and you have to make choices and put your effort behind the big issies because there will always be trade offs. This is not a perfect world where you get everything and give nothing, if that was the case we would simply tell mgmt what we wanted and they would say "sure thing, its done."
I think the JNC did a great job because in the end they got us a lot and and gave up less. At the end of the day in business when you end up with more than you started and more than the other guy wanted to give away it is called a win.
sherpa
Well-Known Member
This is exactly right.
I wonder if the CRJ 200 pilots at 9E would be saying the same thing if they got a lower rate than their XJ counterparts.
USMC-SSGT
Well-Known Member
Its all coming together now. I "know" most of the people who post here on the dash 8 side but I have no idea who they are here on JC.
I have known you for 3 years but I never knew until now your secret JC identity. I still would have never put 2 and 2 together if you didnt mention the BTV turn when we created aviation magic.
Cruise...field day complete. I even took the rack out of the room and used pledge on the floor.
L-16B
Well-Known Member
Too bad our landings didnt have any of that aviation magic!! haha
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
If the -200 airframe was disappearing from XJ at the rate the Saab is, I'd be okay with it. Seriously. Those XJ Saab guys that are getting such a windfall are gonna have to shake up their lives or wind up at a different pay rate within two years anyway. They'll either be in a different seat, on a different airplane or a different base (which depending on language may actually COUNT as a different seat) since there won't be any Saabs based out of MSP, MEM or DTW for Delta, which is what the grandfathered rates are covering.
Mesaba just added 16 Saabs for LGA flying. How much -200 flying is being added? Not that I think this should be based on whether the plane is being phased out or not. We are paid to operate the airplane.
It remains to be seen, but if the XJ guys are staying in the Saab, I would think they would get the grandfathered rate regardless of where they are based.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Is it being added, though? I guess I view it as a "fewer Saabs are being parked" rather than more flying. At a rate of 2 a month, it'll even itself out by August of next year. Basically, in August, Mesaba will be where they would have been in January before the LGA flying.
Like I said, it depends on the wording in the filling of vacancies and compensation sections. If it says something to the tune of "pilot will retain the XJ rate of their current seat until bidding another position in a vacancy," well, I can bet 9E management will see base hopping as a different position since it was bid in a vacancy. I would agree that they SHOULD get the grandfathered rate until changing seats or equipment, but we'll see how the wording comes out. As of right now, eventually the most XJ guys that will eventually be on the Saab will be based in LGA on those 16 Saabs.