9E TA Reached

ATN_Pilot said:
And frankly, they don't need a bunch of outsiders giving them a hard time like I see on that "other" board, trying to pressure them to vote a certain way. They should vote for what they think is best for them and their families.
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I won't give anyone a hard time right now. It's stressful and a tough situation. What I'm talking about is down the road when people have to live with decisions they've made. I'm not making near what I made as a CA at Pinnacle, I've got no CBA to fall back on, but it was MY choice to go to jetBlue. If I start complaining about any of those things, anyone may feel free to slap me with a dose of reality. I made my bed, I'm lying in it. Same as everyone else will either way the vote goes over at Pinnacle.

I just give my opinion on the issue. If someone feels my opinion is telling them how to vote, that's an internal issue on their part, not mine. If they don't like what I say, as I said on the other board, the "ignore" feature won't hurt my feelings one bit. I DO think we have way too many guys at the regional level that haven't even thought of a plan B, so they're only choice is to ride the ship down in flames without even looking for a lifeboat outside of the industry.
 
surreal1221 said:
Sorry Im a realist Mark.
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As am I. Remember, I was the one who clearly pointed to some of the union political issues that have popped up in your merger. If these political issues were handled differently, y'all might have had a deal and given you more leverage with what is going on at PCL.

You know damn well nothing I said was out of line.
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No it was out of line (I've sat through a few ALPA legal briefs in my short career). In your post you said...

This thing needs to die and you guys call their real bluff. What has the Company given you to show any appreciation for your efforts? I have my guess, but I have a feeling it's between not a lot and very little.
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The bolded words is where you got yourself in trouble. Did you read the financial records of Pinnacle and analyze them? Were you in the negotiations room? Have you attended a road show? I would like to know why the Pinnacle Pilot group needs to 'let this thing die' and what the 'real bluff' is.

Bottom line, if a MEC endorses a deal, all others in leadership roles in ALPA need to shut up, let the MEC lay the deal out to their members how they want to, and let the pilot group decide.

Whatever comes from the PCL TA, since Im operating in reality and not fantasy land of us somehow having a JCBA over a year ago, will have an impact on our process here.
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Instead of having a baseline contract of 2006 for the company to go after, the baseline would have been 2012.

Challenge me all you want, but you're going to fall short of any sort of substance.
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See above. To make it simple, why does this thing 'need to die' and what is the 'real bluff'.

Pattern bargaining, regrettably, works in both directions.
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I know

We can go all academia on this when it is all said and done, but at this juncture none of it is even close.
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???????

Cheers!
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Cheers!
 
jynxyjoe said:
New strategy R2-surreal2, let the wookie win.
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He can have it.

He has enough time to dedicate energy to such an endeavor.

Clearly, in his mind, my comments are SO outlandish and out of line - and yet they are a sentiment shared by many. I'll take the spear that the great one threw my way.

Caution though, for others, don't dare reflect on how an outcome elsewhere may impact your neighborhood. Much less provide snarky opinion on what you maybe should do, as so many have already done in so many previous threads.

*gasp*

To be clear, I want the best for the PCL pilots. I am deeply sadden by the lot they have been handed through absolutely no fault of their own and will continue to offer aid and assistance as needed, as I have already done numerous times. In my eyes we are in this fight together.
 
surreal1221 said:
He can have it.
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Sooooooo, you are not going to answer my questions then...

surreal1221 said:
Caution though, for others, don't dare reflect on how an outcome elsewhere may impact your neighborhood.
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No.

You shouldn't take the opposite position of ANOTHER MEC if you are an ALPA volunteer on a public internet board. Even if you agree with what the other MEC did, it is best if one lets the other MEC and pilot group work it out.


In my eyes we are in this fight together.
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Very true.
 
Well, I no longer have a dog in this fight as of 0001 07 Jan 13!!!! FREEEEEEEEEeeeeeeeeeDOMMMMMMMMM (That was my "Braveheart" moment there). Anyway, it is such a mess that you can't even get anyone to talk to you when you resign and try to get all the administrative matters closed on your employment...I shouldn't be surprised after being in HQ recently seen how things are running around the "One Commerce Place" airline think tank...
Unfortunately, generally speaking isn't a growth industry and the airline sector to an even greater extent, and consolidation is going to continue to keep labor on it's heels. ALPA has been sloth-like in it's adaptation to the "new-world" order in the airline business, and it isn't going to make a difference one iota if the TA passes or not. The fact remains that the number of what one could describe as "good" entry-level jobs at a legacy carrier are going to be fewer and VERY competitive to obtain. On another note, the current model of codeshare partners and mainline partners is obsolete in today's high fixed-cost structure, yields on ASMs and labor contracts. I have discovered as many of you have as well in life that transitions are VERY, VERY difficult and can be VERY painful as well...Trust me, I am having to re-set my life for the 3rd time in 10 years I can certainly vouch for that.
As a labor organization, ALPA has done many good things in the areas of pilot health and safety on the job, world-class safety reform and training. However, ALPA is a complete and utter failure as a collective bargaining agent that looks out for the needs of it's organization in total. The fact that ALPA hasn't migrated it's organization into a true labor union vs. an "association" with a tree of individual associations has been a big part of our problem. ALPA portrays itself as being unified and focused on improving quality of life through collective bargaining for all it's members. I take issue with that and cite the history of ALPA, and the string of poorly crafted mergers and integrations. Granted are MANY fine people that truly believe that they are doing what the core values of ALPA represent, and I applaud them. Best of luck...Fair winds and following seas y'all....
 
FSI...It's all good ATN. The way I look at it, if we all agreed with one another all the time. Nothing would ever change and it would be an extremely boring world in which we live in. I don't take it personal if someone doesn't share my opinion and I am always interested in what others are thinking.
 
Ugh... makes me sick. Where's the "I Voted No" stickers for a few months from now when the other shoe drops and everyone starts complaining?
 
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