757 A/T failure

[BobDDuck]

Doesn’t change my statement.

Most places are pretty clear about not flying outside the FD on an airbus. The ATS is going to start doing things you don't want it to if you ignore the pitch bar.

 

[CFIscare]

Most places are pretty clear about not flying outside the FD on an airbus. The ATS is going to start doing things you don't want it to if you ignore the pitch bar.

Understood. It’s only a problem if you don’t understand what thrust mode you are in.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Straight out of the Airbus AFM. If the FD commands aren't going to be followed, the FDs must be turned off.

Because Airbus logic is different. In the descent you can fly with AP off and AT on. On our 737, we can’t. When AP comes off, AT has to come off.

So in open descent, it is critical to follow the FD because thrust is fixed at idle.

 

[roundout]

So in open descent, it is critical to follow the FD because thrust is fixed at idle.

Um, I know.

 

[roundout]

Understood. It’s only a problem if you don’t understand what thrust mode you are in.

Yeah but it's still prohibited. Doesn't matter if you understand what it's doing or not.

 

[bimmerphile]

Because Airbus logic is different. In the descent you can fly with AP off and AT on. On our 737, we can’t. When AP comes off, AT has to come off.

So in open descent, it is critical to follow the FD because thrust is fixed at idle.

the logic isnt that different, same thing as level change in a descent no?

sounds more of an AS policy

 

[CFIscare]

Yeah but it's still prohibited. Doesn't matter if you understand what it's doing or not.

Not at my airline.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

the logic isnt that different, same thing as level change in a descent no?

sounds more of an AS policy

But AP off and AT off force you to be in complete manual control, unlike the Airbus.

 

[Inverted]

Because Airbus logic is different. In the descent you can fly with AP off and AT on. On our 737, we can’t. When AP comes off, AT has to come off.

So in open descent, it is critical to follow the FD because thrust is fixed at idle.

I literally don't know what the 737 would do because you can't hand fly with the AT on in that phase of flight but the Airbus logic would give you the opposite power of where you were in relation to pitch. If you were above the FD and was slowing, the AT system would reduce thrust because it would say you are high and above commanded position, and vise versa. I have no idea if it would do that on the 737. I am sure somebody has tried it but who knows in VNAV if it would operate in the same way.

 

[Sculprit]

I don’t know him but several friends do and he’s apparently a good dude.

Is this the same guy that came out with a book about his career or someone else?

 

[roundout]

Not at my airline.

That must be the only Airbus operator at which it isn't.

 

[ASpilot2be]

Is this the same guy that came out with a book about his career or someone else?

I think that was somebody else.

 

[thevideographer]

These automation discussions are a good reminder that my carrier is the only one that flies the 737 right and everyone else is doing it wrong.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Imagine publishing a book about your career. At age 27. That just reeks narcissism and arrogance.

 

[BobDDuck]

I literally don't know what the 737 would do because you can't hand fly with the AT on in that phase of flight but the Airbus logic would give you the opposite power of where you were in relation to pitch. If you were above the FD and was slowing, the AT system would reduce thrust because it would say you are high and above commanded position, and vise versa. I have no idea if it would do that on the 737. I am sure somebody has tried it but who knows in VNAV if it would operate in the same way.

Likewise if you are above the glideslope and fast trying to chase it down and you pitch below the FD bars the thrust is going to come to and make you even faster.

 

[JordanD]

Is this the same guy that came out with a book about his career or someone else?

Different guy

 

[podrick]

“Don’t call it fatigue, because you’re already airborne.”

The hesitancy and the indecisiveness the Capt gives the perception of, makes me wonder if a
Capt new to being a Capt or new to the aircraft. I get the impression he’s asking dispatch for permission or trying to get dispatch to make a decision for him. Instead of “this is what we are doing, and here’s the reasoning.”

I didn’t even know it was possible to contact the duty pilot airborne, and I can’t imagine a scenario where it would be needed. I think the majority of Air Line pilots would agree, that’s how bizarre this entire thing is.

That’s exactly how it should work with the duty pilot as well. They aren’t management, yet.

FIFY, mostly out of jest.

What is the date of hire for most junior 75 captain at Delta? Sounds like this guys first day in the left seat of anything.

While I agree it sounds bad, I’ve found that seniority and good decision making doesn’t always correlate.

 

[FlyChicaga]

There is a LOT to unpack here… but I will say this: I’d rather the crew have a learning experience after a very conservative air return than the rest of us have a learning experience because they weren’t alert, experienced, comfortable, whatever… and an accident happens.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

“Don’t call it fatigue, because you’re already airborne.” interesting.

What is this “duty pilot’s” function, at Delta?

I don’t know about making a planned 16,000 lb overweight landing with no critical situation existing or no emergency being declared. Couldn’t be duty window related, as they should still be good for the 5 hour flight they just departed on. Or at least a good chunk of it remaining.

The hesitancy and the indecisiveness the Capt gives the perception of, makes me wonder if a
Capt new to being a Capt or new to the aircraft. I get the impression he’s asking dispatch for permission or trying to get dispatch to make a decision for him. Instead of “this is what we are doing, and here’s the reasoning.”

See my post above. No shortage of these type of CAs. It’s cringe once you realize he’s not gonna make a decision. He expects someone on the ground to give him the go ahead to do (something). There no command authority.


I would actually be curious to know his total time at the airline and time in seat.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

There is a LOT to unpack here… but I will say this: I’d rather the crew have a learning experience after a very conservative air return than the rest of us have a learning experience because they weren’t alert, experienced, comfortable, whatever… and an accident happens.

Because…. The autothrottles didn’t work?

We did that crap in RJs for years. Now a big ol 757/767 is too hard without George controlling the thrust levers?