ppragman
FLIPY FLAPS!
Dude, for one, it's your tone. You talk *down* to people. Consistently. Just to rehash old ghosts, if I recall about the Alaska thread you also told me that my work to develop an ASAP program at my old shop was wasted effort or something along those lines because it wasn't a real ASAP program without a union. I mean, dude? WTF? I poured my heart and soul into safety at my old shop and you roll in and say that it doesn't count? Can you see why that might alienate people? And that's just me, I'm certain that there are plenty of other people in these forums with similar stories. In the 3rd class thread (which I skimmed because by the time I got there it was already a •-show) you talked down to people, were dismissive, and frankly came off as rude - to be fair, much of this was in response to the hostile attitude that it seems practically everyone has towards you right now, so it's not really that unexpected; but honestly, it's essentially a conditioned response any more, everyone is keyed up to holler at one another. I understand that you're likely tired of it too, and I'm sure it must be tough that you're pretty much constantly labeled the bad guy every other time you post in a thread, but there are more viewpoints out there yours and you don't need to be right every time. Further, your experience, while very good experience, does not qualify you as informed in all aspects of aviation. This is not a slight at you, I personally respect your experience, but I will definitely say that when you roll into a thread about some person in Alaska and comment as though you're an authority on the subject, it raises the hackles of the local Alaska guys who have been doing it for years and have a different perspective. I've learned over the years that I don't know dick about flying 121, and while I wasn't always aware of my own ignorance, I've come to embrace it. I can scroll through a thread about 121 and learn more from it because of that.
As for your perspective, your tone in these matters is what bothers people. I would be fine if you said, "well in my world, this is what we see, which is why I think these guys are making bad decisions." Instead you label everything in black and white and start talking to people like they're idiots from the word go. Hell, if memory serves, one of the guys in the 3rd class medical thread has a doctor for a wife. I imagine that guy would probably have some perspective that could potentially exceed what you know or what you read on the topic. Let them share it instead of just saying "nope, you're wrong, you don't know what you're talking about." The problem isn't so much that you tell people they are wrong - indeed, I'm wrong about things all the time and fully expect you to call me out - the problem is that when you are wrong, or when you don't have all the information, you won't back down, or bow out, or acknowledge any of that, and when you do call someone out, you're typically snarky or at the very least talk down to them. I enjoy your perspective on many things in this industry. I agree with you about many things in this industry. I do not like how you speak to people on these forums when you disagree with them.
To be fair, it's not just you. I've certainly flung poo in my day on this site, and I'm as guilty as anyone. But I'm tired of it. Why can't we simply be civil to one another? It's not that hard. This was an awesome thread about an aviation badass. I spent 20 minutes going down the rabbit hole of wiki reading about some of the stuff Hacker hinted at about the speed records. And then suddenly it became about who knew more about test flying or which legendary figure had done what and who was qualified to talk about it. And for the record, in this thread, I didn't think you were the bad guy initially. Where I started to get frustrated with you was when you said:
Now any discussion is over. It's clearly a wang-off at this point. And when @USMCmech (a guy who I've personally met and actually think is a stand up dude - a much better man than myself by leaps and bounds) told you that aerobatics weren't part of any test program you say:
You couldn't simply be wrong. You had to dig your heals in, change the subject, and try to save face. This is what sucks and what ruined the thread for me. You're either masterfully trolling us, or simply cannot be wrong, both are somewhat worrisome for the future content of the site. I need to stress that it isn't simply your responses, the constant badgering you get by people needs to stop too. We must treat one another with respect if this site is to be a good place for aviation on the internet.
There are a lot of other people on here who have experiences that are different than yours and/or complimentary. These differences make these forums better, they're not something to be stamped out. I want a variety of perspectives on this site - even yours! In fact, I welcome your experience, especially when it comes to the Union work you did at Colgan at a time when the industry needed people who were tenacious to fight for pilots. I thank you for that! Most importantly, I just want people to be civil to one another and treat one another with respect. It's not just you, we're all culpable in this, more often than not people are simply snarky and dismissive on this site in recent years. Rather than try to engage others in conversation, discussions have been about domination. Let's start talking with one another instead of past one another.
) But are everyone's egos really too fragile to tolerate a few of us nerding out on aerodynamics or some systems minutia in a sub-forum? JC has spots for dispatchers, controllers and all sorts of other members of the industry to hang their hats, and that's what makes this community great. Take what the other guy/girl says with a grain of salt and treat each other with respect. I miss the JC where everyone was at least open to the idea that we could all learn from each other. It brought up the community as a whole.
