250 below 10k…

[ChasenSFO]

I've been told very similar stuff from most controllers "It matters when it matters". If the speed leads to a possible sequencing\seperation issue or certain people are observing, they will care. If not, I'm told so long as you meet your altitude restrictions and they know where you'll be, they'll most likely not say anything. So on a STAR into a busy airport, yeah might have issues. At 1AM? Maybe not. Of course, I was told this mostly from NorCal\Oakland Center folks. Controllers seem a lot more laid-back out here.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

A very respected Zimbabwean TRE at EK preached 250 below 15,000 in Africa. Some big birds that fly high was his rationale.'

I would totally abide by that and would categorize that suggestion as TIA.

 

[pwttogfk]

I’ll say it’s amazing how pilots can completely dork up a sequence by following the rules. Going into AUS today we were pedaling as hard as we could at .73 and got vectored so United could go ahead of us. We then both got cleared to descend via. We followed the FMS path for a continuous descent while United immediately dumped down to the lowest altitude on each segment and leveled. We also slowed to cross each fix at the published speed while it seemed like they slowed right after passing the fix before the one with the restriction. Nothing wrong with either way of flying a STAR, but that’s how you get a NearJet overtaking an airliner by 60+ kts…

All that rambling about how pilots are hard to handle aside, I’m still not busting a FAR to make a sequence work. And I’m still chapped at the one place in the country I’ve been to so far that consistently asks for that and consistently whines/gives penalty vectors if you don’t do it.

 

[NovemberEcho]

I've been told very similar stuff from most controllers "It matters when it matters". If the speed leads to a possible sequencing\seperation issue or certain people are observing, they will care. If not, I'm told so long as you meet your altitude restrictions and they know where you'll be, they'll most likely not say anything. So on a STAR into a busy airport, yeah might have issues. At 1AM? Maybe not. Of course, I was told this mostly from NorCal\Oakland Center folks. Controllers seem a lot more laid-back out here.

We basically measure sep down to the hundredths of a mile now rather than eye balling it. Especially on final, +/- 10kts matters.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

I’ll say it’s amazing how pilots can completely dork up a sequence by following the rules. Going into AUS today we were pedaling as hard as we could at .73 and got vectored so United could go ahead of us. We then both got cleared to descend via. We followed the FMS path for a continuous descent while United immediately dumped down to the lowest altitude on each segment and leveled. We also slowed to cross each fix at the published speed while it seemed like they slowed right after passing the fix before the one with the restriction. Nothing wrong with either way of flying a STAR, but that’s how you get a NearJet overtaking an airliner by 60+ kts…

All that rambling about how pilots are hard to handle aside, I’m still not busting a FAR to make a sequence work. And I’m still chapped at the one place in the country I’ve been to so far that consistently asks for that and consistently whines/gives penalty vectors if you don’t do it.

2 schools and all that, however, if you let the box draw a virtual glide path - you can run into speed issues if you’ve got a decent tailwind or have to run ice. Flipping the @ or above fixes to @ generally means you’ll get down early and have time to slowdown without dragging brakes.

 

[Screaming_Emu]

The difference between .80 and .76 on a 500 nm trip is hardly noticeable. I can’t imagine giving a single eff about the 250 below 10 rule.

I rolled my eyes as an FO that would increase our speed no matter what the flight plan says. Even if they did it at the beginning of an ocean crossing it would be 15-20 min max, and not worth the extra fuel burn.

Pilots who state on the PA that you’re going to try to make it up in the air, you’re a bunch of liars.

 

[NovemberEcho]

I rolled my eyes as an FO that would increase our speed no matter what the flight plan says. Even if they did it at the beginning of an ocean crossing it would be 15-20 min max, and not worth the extra fuel burn.

Pilots who state on the PA that you’re going to try to make it up in the air, you’re a bunch of liars.

Depending on my connection, I might really appreciate that 15-20 min

 

[ChasenSFO]

I rolled my eyes as an FO that would increase our speed no matter what the flight plan says. Even if they did it at the beginning of an ocean crossing it would be 15-20 min max, and not worth the extra fuel burn.

Pilots who state on the PA that you’re going to try to make it up in the air, you’re a bunch of liars.

15-20 min can save a connection 100% if you got a late start on a long enough flight to make it count tho. I would have made many connections I just missed in DEN\ORD over the years had I gotten an extra 5 minutes even. But obviously asking for shortcuts would save more time than just going faster.

 

[TUCKnTRUCK]

I rolled my eyes as an FO that would increase our speed no matter what the flight plan says. Even if they did it at the beginning of an ocean crossing it would be 15-20 min max, and not worth the extra fuel burn.

Pilots who state on the PA that you’re going to try to make it up in the air, you’re a bunch of liars.

15 minutes is $250 saved on engine MX plans alone!!

If I have to slow for 10,000- I have to descend earlier than if I don’t.

Even if they just me hold 360kts till the bottom of the arrival I burn less gas than heading down early (as long as it’s configured correctly in the box)

My original complaint wasn’t really about the time however. Operationally it’s just easier if I don’t have to make 250/10 a hard number. Max forward speed till final becomes a little
But more helpful if I can actually go maximum speed

 

[Richman]

Personally, despised the Mid-continent LORAN gap, pathetic

Which they filled, and then decommissioned LORAN 15 years later.

Winning.