121 crosswind landing technique

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Cooperate and graduate.

That's true for most, but I've taught on almost every plane I've flown in some capacity... as soon as an instructor starts spouting off something like this or preaching "techcedure," I immediately become a pain in their rear.

 

[z987k]

That's true for most, but I've taught on almost every plane I've flown in some capacity... as soon as an instructor starts spouting off something like this or preaching "techcedure," I immediately become a pain in their rear.

You can't get through a single day in our schoolhouse if you do that.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

You can't get through a single day in our schoolhouse if you do that.

It helps when you know the books better than them.

 

[BobDDuck]

I’ve heard those airbus’ go into a hold and you can’t get them out of it.

I'm assuming he can tell it by now, but @MikeD has a story similar to that involving the Mexican border and the 117.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Ok. Let’s go to the FCOM, Vol. 1, 1.27.20, P6 “ the Roll requested by the pilot during flight is proportional to the side stick to deflection with a maximum rate of 15° per second on the side stick is at the stop. “. Rate of roll. Not like the Boeing where you can place the ailerons in a static position. This is why the method in the Airbus is to use the rudder in a decrab. Can you put the aileron down wing? Sure . YMMV

Awacs

Again, what? In a Boeing or an Airbus, you use the rudder to align the nose of the aircraft straight down the runway, and then use the aileron (yoke or side stick) input to avoid drift and slight wing down into the wind for a touchdown.

I'm not sure I understand your point. In the Airbus you use the rudder and aileron in a crosswind landing, just like any other airplane out there (most nearly all of them).

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Ok. Let’s go to the FCOM, Vol. 1, 1.27.20, P6 “ the Roll requested by the pilot during flight is proportional to the side stick to deflection with a maximum rate of 15° per second on the side stick is at the stop. “. Rate of roll. Not like the Boeing where you can place the ailerons in a static position. This is why the method in the Airbus is to use the rudder in a decrab. Can you put the aileron down wing? Sure . YMMV

Awacs

You're reading it but not understanding it. You kick the rudder as you're entering the flare to align, then it is "bumps" on the stick for aileron to achieve the appropriate wing down to stop the drift. Not sure if you're a bus guy, but we have "positive spiral stability" below 33 degrees of bank. Whatever bank angle you set, it's going to try to hold.

I always told students, remember... it's an airplane. You know what that looks like landing in a crosswind, do what you have to do with the stick to make it look like that. There's no varying in mileage... that's how it works. Works great... lasts long time!

 

[Awacs963]

You're reading it but not understanding it. You kick the rudder as you're entering the flare to align, then it is "bumps" on the stick for aileron to achieve the appropriate wing down to stop the drift. Not sure if you're a bus guy, but we have "positive spiral stability" below 33 degrees of bank. Whatever bank angle you set, it's going to try to hold.

I always told students, remember... it's an airplane. You know what that looks like landing in a crosswind, do what you have to do with the stick to make it look like that. There's no varying in mileage... that's how it works. Works great... lasts long time!

Ok. 1200 hours, on the bus and never put the wing down. Pure de-crab. It works. Let just disagree.

Awacs

 

[etflies]

You're reading it but not understanding it. You kick the rudder as you're entering the flare to align, then it is "bumps" on the stick for aileron to achieve the appropriate wing down to stop the drift. Not sure if you're a bus guy, but we have "positive spiral stability" below 33 degrees of bank. Whatever bank angle you set, it's going to try to hold.

I always told students, remember... it's an airplane. You know what that looks like landing in a crosswind, do what you have to do with the stick to make it look like that. There's no varying in mileage... that's how it works. Works great... lasts long time!

Ok. 1200 hours, on the bus and never put the wing down. Pure de-crab. It works. Let just disagree.

Awacs

You do realize he's flown the Bus for nearly a decade and was an instructor on the thing, yes? And that most of those who responded to you are current Bus drivers with more than 1200hrs in type?

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Ok. 1200 hours, on the bus and never put the wing down. Pure de-crab. It works. Let just disagree.

Awacs

I'd strongly suggest giving it a try. It's the way it was designed to be flown. Works just as nicely on the 330 as well.

Can you at least admit that you were wrong in regard to your interpretation of the FCOM reference?

 

[Soul Brotha']

You're reading it but not understanding it. You kick the rudder as you're entering the flare to align, then it is "bumps" on the stick for aileron to achieve the appropriate wing down to stop the drift. Not sure if you're a bus guy, but we have "positive spiral stability" below 33 degrees of bank. Whatever bank angle you set, it's going to try to hold.

I always told students, remember... it's an airplane. You know what that looks like landing in a crosswind, do what you have to do with the stick to make it look like that. There's no varying in mileage... that's how it works. Works great... lasts long time!

You do realize he's flown the Bus for nearly a decade and was an instructor on the thing, yes? And that most of those who responded to you are current Bus drivers with more than 1200hrs in type?

I’ve got near damn 7 years on the thing and when @PeanuckleCRJ gives advice or words of wisdom I listen.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Exactly. The airbus flight control Law will not allow a “wing down” technique.

Just a reminder of where you started. Is it really necessary to keep doubling down like this?

 

[bLizZuE]

300 hours on it and I know that ain’t right.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

300 hours on it and I know that ain’t right.

I knew it wasn't right years before I even started flying the thing, haha.

Me riding in the jumpseat "So someone said this thing can't do cross control?"

"No... it's an airplane. Of course it can... it's just a little different the way you do the stick inputs."

 

[Awacs963]

Just a reminder of where you started. Is it really necessary to keep doubling down like this?

No. No need. Spiral stability it is.

 

[Awacs963]

Can you decrab? You bet you can.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

The initial version of your post was better. Keep doubling down, though.

I cannot say that I'm happy with the fact that you have 1200 hours in the bus and have made statements like you have. That is not a good representation of both yourself and even worse your training department.

 

[jtrain609]

The initial version of your post was better. Keep doubling down, though.

I cannot say that I'm happy with the fact that you have 1200 hours in the bus and have made statements like you have. That is not a good representation of both yourself and even worse your training department.

Whatever. You're wrong. And ugly.

Ugly wrong is the worst kind of wrong. I might be ok with you if you were hott and wrong.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Whatever. You're wrong. And ugly.

Ugly wrong is the worst kind of wrong. I might be ok with you if you were hott and wrong.

I hate you. Why can't I be pretty? I could love me if I were pretty.

 

[jtrain609]

I hate you. Why can't I be pretty? I could love me if I were pretty.

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

Ok. Let’s go to the FCOM, Vol. 1, 1.27.20, P6 “ the Roll requested by the pilot during flight is proportional to the side stick to deflection with a maximum rate of 15° per second on the side stick is at the stop. “. Rate of roll. Not like the Boeing where you can place the ailerons in a static position. This is why the method in the Airbus is to use the rudder in a decrab. Can you put the aileron down wing? Sure . YMMV

Awacs

Can you decrab? You bet you can.

There's a clear misunderstanding here. You're saying the reason you won't use any aileron in a cross wind landing is because in a Boeing you can hold aileron in a static position during a cross wind landing but on an Airbus since you are controlling roll rate that you can't use any aileron at all? How does that make any sense? You don't have to think of it as roll dynamics. Think of what you actually need to accomplish. 737 or A320, you're using the rudder to get the nose pointed down the runway/aligned. And you are using aileron into the wind - as needed - to prevent drift and help stay on the centerline. A Boeing guy can turn the yoke into the wind and finesse it, it's not in a constant static place, sometimes he adds more aileron or sometimes he takes less aileron (shallows it out), or combination of the two as he tries to find the sweet spot for the wind. The Airbus is no different. No one is saying hold a constant side stick input the entire time during the flare. But on a crosswind landing (especially a strong wind), you use the rudder to align with the runway and then just feed in a bit of aileron by tapping the side stick. As needed - you'll get the picture/feel for it. It literally is like any other airplane. The mechanics of what you are doing (and supposed to do) don't change just because you have a sidestick.