gtpilot
Well-Known Member
According the the union, the 20 belong to ASA, not Delta. According to the company, we will be looking for other opportunities to reallocate these aircraft.
10 of Mesaba CR9's going to ASA!
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According the the union, the 20 belong to ASA, not Delta. According to the company, we will be looking for other opportunities to reallocate these aircraft.
WalterSobchak
Well-Known Member
:yeahthat:Because they really weren't ours if they haven't arrived yet and we don't have staffing for them.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
*cough* ExpressJet *cough*
I'd be interested to see what other opportunities exist for 50 seat flying right now.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
Any new flying opportunities will be the result of a bankruptcy and shutdown of another airline(s). The regional industry as a whole will shrink. The strongest will survive. There will be blood in 2009........
BTW Skywest Inc has 700mil+ in the bank. Good Flight
gtpilot
Well-Known Member
You heard it here first! ASA goes branded in 2010!
(Do I need to add the sarcasm tag?)
Baronman
Well-Known Member
And yet the pilots still make $60 something an hour to fly Big RJs. Looks like smart management and a foolish pilot group.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
And what are you making Mr. Bigshot?
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Eh, just come out and say Mesa.
Even if Mesa goes away, not all of that flying is gonna be replaced. EVERYONE is looking to throw off the shackles of 50 seat flying. All those ERJs Freedom's flying for Delta? If Mesa were to go under, I'd be VERY surprised if all that flying stuck around. IMO, Delta would see it as an easy way to reduce the number of 50 seaters in the fleet. They'd just combine two or three flights into one -900 or E175. If we're REALLY lucky, they'd start combining 50 seat flying into mainline flights.
I'm not exactly sure what the money in the bank has to do with the price of tea in China, though. Buying another airline right now would be Stupid, so the money is only there as a cushion in case someone starts losing cash every quarter. Dwindling money that way is gonna cause stock to plummet making angry shareholders. Angry shareholders make for nervous CEOs. I'm still trying to figure out how our management team is still breathing considering how they've swiss cheesed the stock price over here unless the shareholders are shorting the stock hoping we go under. Using the money in the bank to buy more airplanes in the current economy is a HUGE gamble, too. As in just take the $$$ and hit the craps table. Odds are probably better.
WalterSobchak
Well-Known Member
What is the point of that comment? He is pointing out that the exec's are making money off subcracting mainline flying out for a fraction of the cost. The DC-9 is being replaced by airplanes that pay half as much and take twice as long to get to that money.
I figured that wouldn't have needed to be explained to some one who graduated "Cum Laude" in Business Aviation and has such vast aeronautical experience
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
You chose this industry, just like I did for a short stint. Live and learn.
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
The hefty losses incurred from the branded venture sealed your fate, not DL.
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
:banghead:
Baronman
Well-Known Member
Listen, you make a statement talking about how much Skywest has in the bank. Despite the money they have in the bank their pilots are hardly raking in the dough and have little more than most other groups to show for their hard work. So, if I was flying a 70+ people around and my company had 700 million in the bank while I could just afford to support my family as a Captain and an FO making enough for a bachelor to get by on I'd say that there is a problem.
How exactly do you define success? Is it how much your company has in the bank? Or is it how much you have in your pocket? For me I'd like to see both succeeding, in their case I believe it is skewed toward the company's side. The company has made out like bandits flying 70+ seaters around while keeping pay rates low.
Believe me I would love to see Skywest or any other operator get higher pay for these larger RJs. If you're making roughly the same as I am, while I fly 50 pax around, I don't want anyone thinking that I'm overpaid because I am far from it. I am underpaid, my FOs are underpaid and those doing even more work, assuming more responsibility flying more pax around for what I'm making are even more underpaid and deserve higher salaries.
I'm not sure what your background is, but reading your signature it looks like you're relatively new to the industry. Under 1000hrs and flying 121, fine, kudos. Just realize that there are guys with plenty more time invested and experience for which 80k/yr is not that much money. And to answer your question, I'll have made approx 83k this year 4th yr captain, 50seats.
Here is an excerpt from another site, it confirms that there are people there who realize what is going on.
"First let’s be clear, Skywest is not the same airline I hired on with a decade ago. I have watched year after year as management has reduced the benefits of this job while stacking large sums of money into the company coffers. They also paid $400,000,000.00 cash for another airline that they would later use to whipsaw against the pilots that helped raise this money in the first place. How’s that for thanks?! Skywest started out seemingly doing the right thing by its pilots a decade ago. We find ourself in a very different place today, especially the last six years.
Skywest Inc made over $150,000,000.00 dollars NET PROFIT last year alone and yet they still nickel and dime the employees while at the same blowing the “we have to be competitive” bugle because “we are skating on thin ice here.” Its just plane ridiculous and insulting. They don’t think I listen to the conference calls where they gloat to the investment community about having the best balance sheet in the industry and and the lowest costs with a "union free" work force that loves them, or that I can read the annual report? They have the president of ILFC, the largest aircraft lease company in the world on their board of directors cutting industry leading rates. They prepay on their engine overhauls a year or more in advance to reduce profit sharing money. They have benefited from some good strategic decisions and even they will admit a fair bit of luck. Keep in mind Jerry was originally against regional jets and had to be talked into it by RR. The point to all this is that Skywest for a variety of reasons has competitive advantages beyond the “industry average” wages Jerry told us were the new direction we were going after voting down Alpa in 1999. During this drive he said we would be at or above the top. ASA will not go broke with the wages they just received. Skywest will continue to make more money than they have ever made even if they paid the pilots of Skywest ten percent more, which is what we should have got after a stalled and bad faith bargained pay agreement
Back to your question though, how does Skywest compare to other regionals? Id say measuring today at this very moment they are right in the middle and quickly sliding towards the bottom. Moral at Skywest is at all time lows based on the guys I have flown with and the comments I have heard. The growth at the regionals is going to slow down across the board other than like what just happened two days ago, exchanging for a few more seats on a handful of airframes. The majors are relatively happy with the number of regional units they have deployed now and the market will stay pretty much the same over the next several years. If the work rules suck and the almighty growth can’t be sold by management to take its place it’s going to get ugly. I know you want to believe that Skywest is like the old Skywest but it is not. I likely won’t be at Skywest this time next year but that doesn’t stop me from fighting the good fight for those that will be. The buck stops here. Let’s get on with it."
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Seems to me like you're trying to tell the Skywest pilot group to get a real union. . .or something. . .or whatever. . .
Not really sure what your main point is Baronman. Trying to tell an ASA pilot what needs to be done over at Skywest Airlines coming from someone who (to my knowledge) isn't employed at either is a little funny. Or was it just to copy and paste an excerpt from another website?
Not really sure what you want the respective pilot groups of those companies to do.
Although I'd like to hear what you'd like us to do, besides our already existing pattern bargaining platform.
Yes, we're all underpaid. Most of us understand that and also understand the concepts and techniques utilized to improve work rules, pay, and benefits. But, that also means there is a minority of our peers who fail to realize those concepts and techniques and are simply giddy to be flying around.
Combat the ignorance and naive and win the battle of passive pilot groups and we might actually get somewhere in regards to improving the profession so guys like yourself don't feel so angry towards subcontract small jet operators.
We collectively must improve the profession, one airline at a time. In the next few years a number of companies will be in Section 6 negotiations, it'll be interesting to see how pattern bargaining works when multiple carriers who operate on fee-for-departure status are trying to drive up the industry standard.
Not really sure what your main point is Baronman. Trying to tell an ASA pilot what needs to be done over at Skywest Airlines coming from someone who (to my knowledge) isn't employed at either is a little funny. Or was it just to copy and paste an excerpt from another website?
Not really sure what you want the respective pilot groups of those companies to do.
Although I'd like to hear what you'd like us to do, besides our already existing pattern bargaining platform.
Yes, we're all underpaid. Most of us understand that and also understand the concepts and techniques utilized to improve work rules, pay, and benefits. But, that also means there is a minority of our peers who fail to realize those concepts and techniques and are simply giddy to be flying around.
Combat the ignorance and naive and win the battle of passive pilot groups and we might actually get somewhere in regards to improving the profession so guys like yourself don't feel so angry towards subcontract small jet operators.
We collectively must improve the profession, one airline at a time. In the next few years a number of companies will be in Section 6 negotiations, it'll be interesting to see how pattern bargaining works when multiple carriers who operate on fee-for-departure status are trying to drive up the industry standard.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
What opinions? I just stated we have 700mil+ in the bank and asked the man how much he made since he said we're getting nickeled and dimed.
Don't really know what your point is. We already have one of the highest paying contracts in the industry plus a relatively senior pilot group.
NC_BE300
Well-Known Member
If you want to apply Comair math for this situation to be a congrats.....
-20 rj200
+10 rj900
---------
= -10 or aka a "growth of 10 planes instead of a loss of 20"
At least thats the running joke around here with the amount of planes we keep losing.
Trip7
Well-Known Member
I still have no clue what opinion you guys are talking about...
H46Bubba
Well-Known Member
That's good. The 14 they took from us were not owned by us, but Delta. Awwww who cares! It's all Delta even though Comair is on the lease.
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