You are a First Officer...

Seggy

Seggy

Well-Known Member
...and me your Captain has to go take a potty break. While I am in the back the engine shuts down and we are in a dire situation.

Before I can get back you do your job, declare an emergency, get us lined up for an airport, and run the approriate checklists. After you do this, I come back.

Were you the PIC at all during this time? You were in Part 121 Airline Operations.
 
Seggy said:
...and me your Captain has to go take a potty break. While I am in the back the engine shuts down and we are in a dire situation.

Before I can get back you do your job, declare an emergency, get us lined up for an airport, and run the approriate checklists. After you do this, I come back.

Were you the PIC at all during this time? You were in Part 121 Airline Operations.
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The Captain is on board and alert and able to help out thus no.... ?

Captain goes down and isnt able to help out and do anything perhaps unconscious then yes. Even if that's not the case per the regs I couldnt care less. That FO ultimately would have acted and thus was acting in the role of PIC to get it back and land. Would you not want him/her to envoke PIC Authority and land the plane and or sit back and say, "well I'm not in charge so i cant bring it down and land?"

Anyways... logging it you are correct as we've established and I do not see anyone any where who stated otherwise... Yet they at that point they would be acting/exercising PIC authority? Agreed?
 
(Clarification:)

The captain is still PIC in a 121 operation. The FO probably never perfomed a part 121 FAA route check.

Same situation in my operation. I could be relief filling in for the captain when he's in back taking a nap, but in no way am I PIC.

There's a couple (present and former) check airman on the site that may elucidate a little.
 
If they're just in the lav then I'd say no, you're SIC doing what you need to do while the captain relieves themselves.

If the captain passes out in the left seat and doesn't wake up the rest of the flight, I suppose you could say you were in command for the rest of that event, after all, the captain isn't able to do anything while unconscious. I wouldn't log it as PIC but for novelty's sake I suppose someone could say they were in command for a while after the captain went unconscious.
 
how u gonna log that?

did it really take the captain at least 6 mins to take a leak? lol
 
There's got to be a story behind this. Did one of your FO's (who most likely only possesses a 121 SIC type rating) claim that he was logging 121 PIC while you were taking a tinkle?
 
Doug Taylor said:
There's got to be a story behind this. Did one of your FO's (who most likely only possesses a 121 SIC type rating) claim that he was logging 121 PIC while you were taking a tinkle?
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Or another thread in which the word "acting" was left out for a moment due to typing enitrely too fast....
 
Actually I had almost the reverse situation happen to me...While in the head the FO had a deviation and was called out by ATC....Filled out the necessary ASAP and I never heard a thing, I don't know if the FO did or not. My ASAP read.."During cruise I had to relieve myself...Came back and was briefed by the FO what happened while my pants were around my ankles." Shiet happens!
 
Maybe it's just me, but for someone to say they were the "acting" PIC or using "temporary" PIC authority, even if techincally correct is rather self-indulgent. The reason there are two pilots is for this very reason. If one of them is unconcious, the other one can handle the situation. Why not just say, "The boss passed out, and I did my job."

(Yeah, I know I sound like a crusty old dude. There's a reason for that. It's because I am one!)
 
I'm pretty sure the skipper will interrupt his crapping if he hears the engines wind down. I doubt you'll look better wit the extra .001TPIC :D
 
Doug Taylor said:
(Clarification:)

The captain is still PIC in a 121 operation. The FO probably never perfomed a part 121 FAA route check.

Same situation in my operation. I could be relief filling in for the captain when he's in back taking a nap, but in no way am I PIC.

There's a couple (present and former) check airman on the site that may elucidate a little.
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Cptnchia said:
Maybe it's just me, but for someone to say they were the "acting" PIC or using "temporary" PIC authority, even if techincally correct is rather self-indulgent. The reason there are two pilots is for this very reason. If one of them is unconcious, the other one can handle the situation. Why not just say, "The boss passed out, and I did my job."

(Yeah, I know I sound like a crusty old dude. There's a reason for that. It's because I am one!)
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So, I heard a story that has this part in the middle: "The Captain fell out of the lav with his pants around his ankles, and the other pilot was climbing up to the upperdeck, hanging on to the floor with his feet on the ladder...". Yes the rest of it is as entertaining as it sounds...

I think that covers all the bases. I'd say if you're name ain't in the can, all you got is a good interview story, and prolly a good annotation in your remarks section of your old-school paper log.

I really dig the 3 stripes = no to minimal paperwork:insane:
 
I think there are two ways to look at this as well Mark. One the example you gave was kind of a poor example. However lets say the CA does indeed become incapacitated.... I dont know in your FOM how it reads but I'd bet to say most would read like ours.

The First officer assumes all responsiblity of the captain and in event the Captain becomes incapaciated full responsibility of the Captain.

Thus perhaps not PIC yet they are taking on the FULL responsiblity of the Captain. YOU can feel free to slice it whatever way you wish for your advantage. However ultimately that means your FO would be having the final say and authority of that flight at that time. To me that makes it sound like they are then acting as PIC in a situation like that.

Now again would they log it? No of course not. But the above example perhaps would be more accurate of an example for this type of question.
 
If I was incapacitate as a commander then yes the First Officer does assume responsibility and act as pilot in command.
 
Chief Captain said:
I'm pretty sure the skipper will interrupt his crapping if he hears the engines wind down. I doubt you'll look better wit the extra .001TPIC :D
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Nah, I take some monster ones and hate being interrupted while on the throne.

I would finish my business, let the First Officer handle all the bells and whistles, then meander back up front to take all the credit :)
 
Seggy said:
If I was incapacitate as a commander then yes the First Officer does assume responsibility and act as pilot in command.
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meyers9163 said:
Thus the situation mentioned in another thread resembles the before mentioned.
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But that's your job, to take over if something happens to the captain. You shouldn't be expecting any extra accolades for doing it. Just FIDO.

Ah Hell, maybe that's just an old school way of thinking.
 
Seggy said:
Nah, I take some monster ones and hate being interrupted while on the throne.

I would finish my business, let the First Officer handle all the bells and whistles, then meander back up front to take all the credit :)
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Do you have to do a new W/B?
 
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