Future regional hiring

That's a fairly long and complicated discussion that I've been having with Emily for the last few weeks.

You've got on one hand the group of folks (like Doug) who say, "Don't jump from company to company! Get in, get your TPIC time and get out. The company threatens furlough to get you to give up your pay rate and work rules, so don't buy the hype! You will most likely have nothing happen to you."

Then you've got folks on the other side of that discussion that say, "If you see things crashing down around you, don't wait to bail! If you do, the folks junior to you will be senior at the next company!" Amber's husband saw this, and made the jump to Delta from TWA. In hindsight, good move.

Right now I'm waiting to see what happens, though with the latest bit of information we got today about our board of directors, it's not looking pretty. There's a part of me that isn't willing to do this job for any less, and that's exactly what I'd be doing if I left this place and went somewhere else. There's also the very realistic chance that I'd be flying an even larger aircraft for less money than I am currently. There's another part of me that says "get out now, you need health insurance!" but who's to say that I won't simply be on the bottom of another seniority list when the furlough bus pulls up to that place and starts hauling folks off.

Honestly? I figure if I'm booted out the door, I've got options. What's the WORST thing that happens to me?

-ExpressJet furloughs.
-I can't get on at Compass.
-I can't get on at Republic.
-I can't get on at Mesaba.
-I don't go back to Amflight (even though I'm eligible for rehire)
-I can't find a flight instructing job
-I can't get a job as a ski instructor
-I can't get into grad school
-I can't get a job doing IT

If all that happens, then, well, I can pretty much replace my income while working at Wendy's, so I'm not gonna stress TOO much. But there are plans A through H.
 
Haha, some things never change.

aloft said:
Well, considering you were what, 15 years old when you had 500 hours in your logbook, it's no wonder you feel that way. When you subtract all that time you logged riding shotgun with your mom, your flight experience is probably close to typical regional hiring mins.
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I have about 350 hours of dual given in my logbook. That gives me like 1300 hours of PIC, 450 hours of multi PIC, 200 hours of Turbine PIC, and about 150 hours PIC of actual instrument time (all single pilot). My logbook can be viewed here:

http://www.logshare.com/log.jsp?email=youngpilot88@aol.com


Not to engage in playa hatin' here, but the reason you're feeling that way is because of the fundamental difference between experience and hours logged; that is, actually getting something out of the time, instead of just adding more ink to your logbook. Really, how many hours of multi and even turbine time had you logged before you were even old enough to legally solo? Quite a bit, IIRC.
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You sound like you are hating. I had about 100 hours of multi and maybe 20 of turbine prior to getting my multi rating. I know the difference between hours logged and experience, I would imagine I have a lot more of both than you do. :)


During all those hours logged riding shotgun with your mom, how many times was the go/no-go decision yours to make? How often were you the one to decide whether you really had enough fuel, given the greater-than-forecast headwinds and the three extra pax your customer brought with them? How many times was your systems knowledge tested by an engine that didn't sound right, and how many times did you make the decision to divert because of it?
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Ok, so don't count the 350 hours of dual time.

Sorry to use you as an example, Alex, but you make a great case in point for all those guys who think they're ready for a jet cockpit at 300 hrs, because they haven't faced most of those challenges, either.
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Why not use yourself as an example. You're a 300 hour pilot right? Why not say all the reasons you aren't ready to fly a jet instead of using me an example?

That said, I do have to commend you because you're even thinking about these issues now, at a still relatively young age.
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Thanks,

Alex.
 
Train-

Well, you have your four year degree, well networked and the hammer may or may not drop, I think you're in a much better position than the recent high school grads with $80K of flight training debt and no degree.

The airline business is like a marriage. It's got ups and downs. Hopefully the 'ups' are deliciously fabulous, and the 'downs' are few and far between.

Everyone else- You effers'll be fine, stop worrying so much! :) Those that took the advice we've been doling out for the last decade will be alright. Those that didn't, well, bon chance mi amigo! :) It is what it is and enjoy the ride.
 
Citationkid said:
Haha, some things never change.



I have about 350 hours of dual given in my logbook. That gives me like 1300 hours of PIC, 450 hours of multi PIC, 200 hours of Turbine PIC, and about 150 hours PIC of actual instrument time (all single pilot). My logbook can be viewed here:

http://www.logshare.com/log.jsp?email=youngpilot88@aol.com




You sound like you are hating. I had about 100 hours of multi and maybe 20 of turbine prior to getting my multi rating. I know the difference between hours logged and experience, I would imagine I have a lot more of both than you do. :)




Ok, so don't count the 350 hours of dual time.



Why not use yourself as an example. You're a 300 hour pilot right? Why not say all the reasons you aren't ready to fly a jet instead of using me an example?



Thanks,

Alex.
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Nice write up, Alex.
 
I was going to send this to Train in an AIM, but I figure other people can benefit from this too.

I went through a bankruptcy at my company. Actually, I was hired during one. During that time period EVERYTHING was up in the air. From month to month we didn't know if our fleet or part of it would be liquidated, we didn't know if some hotels would boot us out for non payment, we didn't know if our parent company folded, would we be sold off or go down with the ship. And then we merged, and again, we didn't know if we would be sold off, kept or what. During that whole time period I was constantly wondering when I would get a line, when I would upgrade, when I might get furloughed. I was always checking aviation job sites, and figuring out ways to get "ahead" what ever that means.

Then at some point it just all stopped mattering. I eventually got a line, I eventually upgraded. But during that time period I realized that 99% of the crap we deal with and worry about is completly uncontrollable, and it serves no purpose to do so.

I still have to laugh when new hires here ask me all this stuff about when I think they'll upgrade or how long they'll be on reserve. There ain't no way to know, so why even worry.

My point, to Jtrain specifically, is that you have no control. You have a back up plan in place, so stop worry and enjoy the flying while you are doing it. If it all comes crashing down, well, then so be it and you've got you A through H plans in place. If it doesn't, well, then you just saved your self a whole lot of stress by not worrying.
 
Citationkid said:
You sound like you are hating. I had about 100 hours of multi and maybe 20 of turbine prior to getting my multi rating. I know the difference between hours logged and experience, I would imagine I have a lot more of both than you do. :)
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How wonderful for you. Now why don't you run out and go get your ATP with all that experience. Oh wait...you can't, you're only 19. :rolleyes:

Citationkid said:
Why not use yourself as an example. You're a 300 hour pilot right? Why not say all the reasons you aren't ready to fly a jet instead of using me an example?
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Because a) my experience and logbook are in agreement, and b) at 650 TT, I never said I was ready to fly a jet!

But to kick this thread back on track, I have the 4-yr degree, 15 years of professional work experience, and a ton of non-aviation-related skills--oh, and a paid-off car and zero training debt. How 'bout you?
 
BobDDuck said:
I was going to send this to Train in an AIM, but I figure other people can benefit from this too.

I went through a bankruptcy at my company. Actually, I was hired during one. During that time period EVERYTHING was up in the air. From month to month we didn't know if our fleet or part of it would be liquidated, we didn't know if some hotels would boot us out for non payment, we didn't know if our parent company folded, would we be sold off or go down with the ship. And then we merged, and again, we didn't know if we would be sold off, kept or what. During that whole time period I was constantly wondering when I would get a line, when I would upgrade, when I might get furloughed. I was always checking aviation job sites, and figuring out ways to get "ahead" what ever that means.

Then at some point it just all stopped mattering. I eventually got a line, I eventually upgraded. But during that time period I realized that 99% of the crap we deal with and worry about is completly uncontrollable, and it serves no purpose to do so.

I still have to laugh when new hires here ask me all this stuff about when I think they'll upgrade or how long they'll be on reserve. There ain't no way to know, so why even worry.

My point, to Jtrain specifically, is that you have no control. You have a back up plan in place, so stop worry and enjoy the flying while you are doing it. If it all comes crashing down, well, then so be it and you've got you A through H plans in place. If it doesn't, well, then you just saved your self a whole lot of stress by not worrying.
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I think you've got the wrong idea here, I'm not exactly stressed out. I just spent have my day skiing, I have 15 days off this month and managed to pull a relief line next month again. I've got some decent backup plans, I'm trying to speak to the folks who DO NOT.

I really hate thread creep.
 
My "L'il Dougie" is bigger and girthier than both of yours.

So that's settled! :)

Lets discuss the topic at hand and not make/take it personal.
 
Thanks for the comments from the other people:)

aloft said:
How wonderful for you. Now why don't you run out and go get your ATP with all that experience. Oh wait...you can't, you're only 19. :rolleyes:
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I don't get it, is it a bad thing I am 19? Am I supposed to be offended by your comment? Besides, I would have to take a pretty big pay and QOL cut to go to an airline, no need for me to get an ATP:D

Because a) my experience and logbook are in agreement, and b) at 650 TT, I never said I was ready to fly a jet!
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He'll have to confirm the numbers, but I think something close to one third of Alex' total time is "dual received" from his CFI mom while he was between the ages of 12-16 or so, lots of multi and possibly turbine time, while she flew Pt 91 corporate for somebody. Legal? Probably. Of questionable value? Arguably.

My point was that here's a pilot with 1700 hrs logged saying he's only just beginning to feel qualified to crew a jet, and it's likely due to the mismatch between his experience and his logbook; his true experience level is that of a pilot with a lot fewer hours.
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No offense, but you have no idea what my experience level is like. My experience level could be equal to that of a pilot with fewer hours, I really don't know or care. I like to think I am more experienced than 1000 hour 172 pilot. At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is I am safe in the plane I am flying, which I am.

But to kick this thread back on track, I have the 4-yr degree, 15 years of professional work experience, and a ton of non-aviation-related skills--oh, and a paid-off car and zero training debt. How 'bout you?
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Thanks for asking. I have a 2006 car that is paid off, no debt to anybody for anything, oodles (that's right, I said oodles) of money in the bank, plenty of non-aviation related skills and hobbies, I am about 30 credits away from a four year degree in a a business major, and I have a job that I love. :)

Try to keep it civil,

Alex.

Edit: Crap, Ian already used "oodles" in this thread. So much for originality on my part.
 
aloft said:
Great, so you come from money. We should all be so lucky.
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Enough Matt... he didn't say that. Remember what "assume" means... Let's not go further than we are now mmmkay? don't make us start dishing out "be nice to your fellow user" quotes! oh wait.. i just did...shoot! ;)
 
I don't really feel like it's jealousy, maybe a smidge of bitterness that probably relates to something else or maybe matt just got off the wrong side of the bed today... who knows?! why dwell? so long as thread stays on track, it's all good. :)
 
aloft said:
Great, so you come from money. We should all be so lucky.
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Haha, you have great conversational and people skills:) No I do not come from money. My parents are both pilots who make a livable salary, but nothing amazing. With two other siblings and their divorce when I was 14, there was no money for my flying. I worked very hard, did a lot of networking, and was lucky enough to meet people along the way that helped me and let me use their airplanes for free or ride right seat with them, even though I didn't log the time. Then I was really luck and had a good, high paying, job fall into my lap. I am not saying this to boast, only so you and others know where I am coming from next time they try to rag on me. FWIW, I have not flown reguarly with either my mother or father in over three years.

Alex.
 
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