GoJet Airlines

Nick said:
Aloft, I've never met you but you are wiping away six thousand posts worth of credibility here trying to dig yourself out of a hole that was dug with wrong information.
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Please, for the love of God, prove your statement and I shall retract every word I've written here. I'm BEGGING you.

Just one would-hold-up-in-court-or-in-the-press piece of evidence. Why is it none of you can deliver this, yet cling to your beliefs so strongly? I'm not questioning your religion or sexuality, for chrissake!
 
Alchemy said:
Factual evidence:

Chautaqua operates ERJ's for AA as well, yet their pilots are on the same seniority list as pilots that fly hundreds of 70+ seat jets for United, USAirways, Frontier, and Delta. How is this possible? Republic apparantly did not find it necessary to circumvent the collective bargaining process with their pilots.

The gojet pilot group was created to circumvent the collective bargaining process at TSA.
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TSA Holdings *could* operate GoJet with TSA pilots, but they choose not to in order to circumvent the collective bargaining process. The evidence is the Republic operation which exists in the same system. I have not seen you respond to the this evidence yet. It disporves the only possible reason you've given for GoJet pilots' existence (other than to circumvent the collective bargaining process).
 
aloft said:
Yeah, and your point is....?



No, they just bought one instead. Come on Matthew, you're smarter than this.
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The question was asked, if it would be okay for Air Tran to start an alter ego, because they're pilots have turned down at TA.

You said apples and orianges, because it's not preventing Air Tran from getting a new RFP.

So, then I brought up PNCL, and presented their DL op and how they (the pilots) have refused the low ball rates management offered for them to fly the 900's.

Instead putting all their hopes on the arbiter sholders. No alter ego was created to get the 900 flying at screw ball rates.

Also managment states they did lose out on new RFP's because the pilots didn't sign a contract.

My point bring these facts up is that managment at PNCL didn't create an alter ego unit to get the RFP's out and planes on property for either UA or DL.

Yes, they bought Colgan, and probably, hell will be whipsaw'd. But that wasn't my point, it was that just because the pilots refused to play ball pre colgan purchase the company didn't resort to such draconian methonds to get new RFP's.

And the 900's are being flown by PNCL pilots.

Another example, a better one is again Republic!
 
PCL_128 said:
How so?
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You're kidding, right? A check airman intentionally failing someone out of training because of where they used to work, rather than on the merits of their performance? Where's the integrity in that? That check airman ought to be stripped of his certificates and fired.

PCL_128 said:
Perception is reality. Encouraging someone to make a career decision that you know is viewed as scab-like to many pilots is bad advice. Doug built this website to educate future professional pilots so they can make smart career decisions and advance in their careers. Going to GoJet is a career killer. Period.
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So you're stating unequivocally that no GoJet pilot has ever gone onto a major?

I'm sorry man, call me a naysayer, but I just can't accept as FACT the grumblings and opinions people espouse without evidence to support their positions. Then again, I don't believe the bible is the word of God, either.

How can you POSSIBLY fault a pilot who takes a job at GoJet tomorrow for things that may or may not have happened yesterday? GoJet is a union carrier, has a union-negotiated contract, and their pilots are paid better than TSA's. Pretty pathetic attempt at union-busting if there ever was one.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
My point bring these facts up is that managment at PNCL didn't create an alter ego unit to get the RFP's out and planes on property for either UA or DL.
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Here's where we had a communication breakdown: you're still clinging to the notion that GoJet was created to get around the pilots. I'm saying it was to get around scope with one of their mainline partners. Which, if true, would NOT have prevented the TSA pilots to take the flying a la RAH. The only thing keeping the TSA pilots from that flying was themselves.
 
aloft said:
You're kidding, right? A check airman busting someone on a check because of where they used to work, rather than on the merits of their performance? Where's the integrity in that?
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Certain groups of people need to be weeded out. If the interviewers don't take care of it, then others will have to. I'm proud to say that many GoJet pilots took jobs at Pinnacle, many of them hoping to be street Captains, but not a single one of them has made it past OE. Coincidence? You judge for yourself. I already know the answer.

So you're stating unequivocally that no GoJet pilot has ever gone onto a major?
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A few have. Very few. Most have gone to VA and ScumBus. ScumBus is a GoJet graveyard. The former GoJetters go there in hopes of "making it" because they can't go anywhere else, but when ScumBus soon goes under, they'll have nowhere else to go. Pretty sad.

How can you POSSIBLY fault a pilot who takes a job at GoJet tomorrow for things that may or may not have happened yesterday?
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I know for a fact what happened at GoJet. There is no doubt. You can pretend that this is all in dispute, but it's not. You remind me of those that claim the Holocaust never took place. No sane person questions it, but there's always a few nutty ones that refuse to accept what's right in front of their noses.
 
aloft said:
Here's where we had a communication breakdown: you're still clinging to the notion that GoJet was created to get around the pilots. I'm saying it was to get around scope with one of their mainline partners. Which, if true, would NOT have prevented the TSA pilots to take the flying a la RAH. The only thing keeping the TSA pilots from that flying was themselves.
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So was it scope or the company did want to deal with the pilots?
 
aloft said:
You're kidding, right? A check airman intentionally failing someone out of training because of where they used to work, rather than on the merits of their performance? Where's the integrity in that? That check airman ought to be stripped of his certificates and fired.


So you're stating unequivocally that no GoJet pilot has ever gone onto a major?

I'm sorry man, call me a naysayer, but I just can't accept as FACT the grumblings and opinions people espouse without evidence to support their positions. Then again, I don't believe the bible is the word of God, either.

How can you POSSIBLY fault a pilot who takes a job at GoJet tomorrow for things that may or may not have happened yesterday? GoJet is a union carrier, has a union-negotiated contract, and their pilots are paid better than TSA's. Pretty pathetic attempt at union-busting if there ever was one.
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:yeahthat: :yeahthat:
 
aloft said:
The only thing keeping the TSA pilots from that flying was themselves.
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Nope, it was the willingness of TSA management to circumvent the collective bargaining process (aided by the willingness of gojet pilots to undermine their peers) combined with the TSA pilots' refusal to further lower the bar in regional compensation.
 
PCL_128 said:
an intransigent management that refused to bargain in good faith.
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The fact that GoJet pilots are paid a higher rate than TSA pilots would seem to suggest otherwise.

Again, you guys are spouting the same opinions over and over, and again, I'm still waiting for a shred of proof in support thereof. Come on, how hard can it be?

I gotta fly in the morning, goodnight, all.
 
aloft said:
The fact that GoJet pilots are paid a higher rate than TSA pilots would seem to suggest otherwise.
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When work rules and soft pay are taken into account, that's not true.

Again, you guys are spouting the same opinions over and over, and again, I'm still waiting for a shred of proof in support thereof. Come on, how hard can it be?
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What sort of "proof" are you looking for? I'm sorry, but ALPA doesn't video tape negotiating sessions. I'm telling you exactly what happened. If you choose to believe management rather than a union rep, then that's your choice. Simply understand that there are repercussions for working at this carrier, whether you like it or not.
 
It seems like people are pretty quick to call them Scabs. Nothing I've seen says that TSA was on strike, and GoJet pilots crossed a picket line. If you don't want to like them or respect them, that's you're call. But do not call them Scabs. That word is a Fighting Word, and a word best left for people who honestly earn it.
 
madmax said:
It seems like people are pretty quick to call them Scabs. Nothing I've seen says that TSA was on strike, and GoJet pilots crossed a picket line. If you don't want to like them or respect them, that's you're call. But do not call them Scabs. That word is a Fighting Word, and a word best left for people who honestly earn it.
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Where did I or anyone else call them SCABs? I call them pseudo-scabs. In my opinion, they aren't SCABs. They're actually worse. At least a SCAB waits until you go on strike to steal your job.
 
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