Skinnah
Well-Known Member
LOL
SkyWest Pay Proposal Out
- Thread starter GaTechKid
- Start date
LOL
WAFlyBoy
Well-Known Member
That analogy makes no sense. It's funny though.....
Seggy
Well-Known Member
Makes perfect sense.
At a nonunion carrier, you get yourself on the radar screen for whatever reason, you are helpless to stop what management needs to do for what is best for the company.
You have issues in bed, you are helpless to stop your girlfriend from leaving you!
WAFlyBoy
Well-Known Member
hahaha.
I understand your point, but still disagree with the logic of this analogy. Almost seems like your choice of words was formulated specifically to include a "pecker" reference. (Not unusual on the forums these days.) Small potatoes and not worth an argument that would cloud the issue.
I understand your point, but still disagree with the logic of this analogy. Almost seems like your choice of words was formulated specifically to include a "pecker" reference. (Not unusual on the forums these days.) Small potatoes and not worth an argument that would cloud the issue.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
As Seggy said, the information that was posted about compensation at ALPA was grossly inaccurate and came from a self-avowed anti-labor group. Using the same methodology that they used to calculate "compensation" for the ALPA Officers and staff, they would say that I made well over six figures as a mid-seniority RJ Captain at Pinnacle. Folks, I can assure you that that was not the case. The "compensation" figures that they used include all expenses, benefits, etc... That grossly over-inflates the figures that they use.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Remember that...if Hillary gets the dem nomination! Mr. a GOP is better than Hillary, any day!
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Remember that...if Hillary gets the dem nomination! Mr. a GOP is better than Hillary, any day!
Hillary isn't a real Democrat anymore than Guiliani is a real Republican.
Sorry Max, I can't be swayed on this one.
I really hate that woman.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Hillary isn't a real Democrat anymore than Guiliani is a real Republican.
Sorry Max, I can't be swayed on this one.
Well, again let me state, that she will be alot more friendly to labor than any republican president!
Shooting ones self in the foot does sting!
You're right... It is ALWAYS outside factors that stop ALPA from ever doing anything positive. Outside factors that everybody has to deal with. Sounds like ALPA is great at doing nothing unless they control every factor. That just isn't realistic for any organization... labor groups, political parties, management, tree huggers, passengers, manufacturers, heck- even homeless people. Nobody can control all the factors. How effective you are in obtaining your goals despite them is your effectiveness as an organization. Your statement is correct. ALPA does not succeed due to "outside factors". Sounds great.. sign me up!
Sounds like they are a great organization to join. "We can't control what we claim to be able to control. We are here to beat back the outside forces that ruin our careers... but we can't. It is never our fault, we are just not effective because others won't let us be effective. We simply can't MAKE things happen for the better in this industry. And that is our excuse, please attach money below.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
As expected, you miss the point. ALPA can't meet your expectations, because your expectations aren't realistic. That doesn't mean that ALPA isn't helping, simply that ALPA isn't able to meet your grandiose ideals that you've built up in your mind of what a union should be able to do. How do you think things would have been after 9/11 without unions? The answer is obvious. Mainline flying would have all but ceased to exist. All narrow-body flying would be outsourced to the lowest bidding regional because scope would not exist to prevent it. Payrates would be decimated, even worse than now. Work rules would be nonexistent. Retirement? What retirement? ALPA prevented all of that and softened the blow. But since ALPA wasn't able to stop even the slightest concession, you deem ALPA a failure. The problem isn't ALPA, the problem is your unrealistic expectations.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Not entirely true. I can point to one management team that routinely does crazy stuff, but they're saved b/c they signed deals through 2017, so they can't lose the flying.
We're not talking about CEOs making less than pilots. If you want ALPA national officers to make what a rank and file pilot does, that's another unrealistic goal. The reason CEO salaries are high is to attract top talent. Why should it be different on the labor side of things?
I think the main point was you have to consider the source that was cited. They altered the figures (as PCL pointed out) to include benefits, expenses, etc. So, under those circumstances, as a FO, I would have made WELL over $60K last year. I can assure you, that was not the case, though. Those figures not only include gross income, but per diem, other expenses the company paid for, insurance, benefits, etc. Imagine how inflated our incomes would be if they added in the cost of a single occupancy hotel room for every night your away on a trip as part of your "income."
Chris_Ford
Well-Known Member
WAFlyBoy
Well-Known Member
LMAO!!!!!!
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Actually, if we have a bad day at work, a bunch of people can die. You minimize the importance of your job, and that's unfortunate. That attitude has directly led to the destruction of our careers.
I have no problem with high compensation for executives. I only have a problem with it when they subsidize their astronomical compensation on my back. When executives make millions and then demand concessions from their employees, I have a problem with that.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Why does that change the need to attract the best talent?
P.S. CEOs are chosen from their own ranks, also. The good 'ole boys on Boards of Directors elect their buddies. That's why failed CEOs keep finding multi-million dollar CEO jobs.
The slightest concession?? Talk to a UA 737 right seater and tell me if he agrees with you.
I'll give you that ALPA may have helped SEVEN YEARS AGO! But what have they done for me lately? Riding the accomplishments of almost a decade ago seems like a noble business model... but lets ask any MBA student how that translates into effectiveness. Not well.
I agree ALPA needs a huge overhaul if they want to attract the "up and comers" in this industry. The older guys touting that we are ruining the industry are being much to hypocritical. I stepped into the airlines 5 years ago, I'm just reaping what they sowed. Blaming me for the career environment they established with concessions, work rule give-a-ways, etc... because I can't "make it all better" by voting for ALPA, is simply ridiculous.
I'm at a non-union carrier, making more and having a better QOL than a majority of my union counterparts. Where is my motivation for wanting ALPA?
Instead of blaming me for not wanting them and as a result "ruining the industry", they should try to improve life at their own carriers and show me how effective they are, that could sway me. Lip service won't and excuses won't. Instead of showing how pay at other carriers limits ALPA's negotiating power... turn the tables. Get the golden contract at a union carrier that pays a 4 year 70 seat Captain $80+ an hour (good luck with the Delta pay scale hanging overhead... interesting, an ALPA carrier) and see how the industry handles it. Show me that ALPA can take steps to bring back the $170,000 airline pilots in a world of $10 dollar fares and $100 dollar oil. Who has unrealistic expectations? I'm not going to apologize for be a "results" oriented guy. Until ALPA improves thier organization I don't see anybody wanting to bring them on property.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
I have little respect for MBA students, so I won't be asking them anything, thank you very much. As for ALPA only helping "almost a decade ago," your ignorance is showing again. Ask Dough about the bankruptcy claim payout check and the pension default payout check that the DAL pilots just got last year. Wouldn't have happened without ALPA. Delta would have just defaulted on their pension, given it to the PBGC to pay the minimum benefits upon retirement, and the pilots would have received nothing in equity for their concessions. Ask the Mesaba pilots who actually got a better deal out of bankruptcy than they had going in, thanks to ALPA. Their bankruptcy claim payout exceeded the amount they gave in concessions. What did the company want to do? They wanted $13,700/yr copilots. They wanted to outsource flying to Big Sky. They wanted virtually no work rules. Sorry, not with ALPA in town. You need to get educated. Stop regurgitating the same old crew room bullsh-- that you hear your fellow non-union pilots talk about. It's the blind leading the blind. Pick up a copy of Flying the Line and actually learn something.
If I have that bad of a day at work... I made a mistake. Non-excusable. So I don't fly if that possiblity is even on my radar screen that day.
Unions can't stop bad pilots from being bad pilots. Don't turn job proficiency into a union issue. I'm a good pilot... nothing will affect that. I do not minimize the importance of my job. If I did... a union would be a great thing- "Job protection from enforcement action" is a big selling point for them. Bad pilots get paid the same a good pilots do. Just like bad teachers now get paid what good teachers get paid, result? Teachers get paid like crap. It is a shame that the pilot road has meandered that way.
My pay has nothing to do with how I operate the airplane, other than maybe burning some extra Jet A if I'm mad at mangement.
There can be no huge mistakes in the cockpit... union or not... period. Thats a given.