Corporate Pilots!

Sorry flyboy,

My department is strictly part 91. I wouldn't have any idea what kind of experience charter outfits are looking for.

Wish I could help you. :(
 
Flyboy,

Even though I may not have near the experience of some of the people on this board, I'll share with you what I've learned in my short time in the 135 charter world.

I'm presently flying single-pilot air ambulance in a King Air 200.

I got the job based on the following experience.(probably in order of importance)

1. I had previous all-weather single-pilot freight experience in the Intermountain Northwest which has it's own challenges.
2. I had enough turbine time to look like a good risk to their insurance company. (300 hrs in King airs)
3. I had and continue to have the attitude that I want to do the best job possible and I have much left to learn.
4. I knew someone in the company.(This got me in the door but wouldn't have helped if I lacked 1,2,0r 3 above)

I can also tell you we just finished hiring up a full staff after a few long-time pilots left. Here are the qualities that were valued the most.

Competent, current single-pilot IFR skills
A good combination of multi-engine, turbine and all-weather flying time.

So to answer your question a little more specifically, Total Time is total time- yes but it really depends on what type of charter operation you are targeting. The single-pilot ops are going to discount VFR flying time such as pipeline patrol and imaging because those missions are vfr based and tend to be more routine in nature.

If you can stomach it, and afford it personally, I'd go get some hard core freight time if you haven't already. It will open doors for you that you had never imagined. In fact, I think the industry tends to give freight pilots a little more credit and faith-in-ability than what is due but hey- I'll benefit from that if I can.

That being said, If you are having a challenge getting to the 135 min times then it is my humble opinion that the type of flying you do to get to the 135 Mins matters less than they type of flying you do to get you to that charter job. (if that makes any sense at all)

I tried to get several of my buddies in the door and they all seemed to be lacking at least one or more of those 4 key qualities I listed above. So the reference was useless to them because they just didn't have the right experience. In the end, I finally told them the same thing I said above- go fly freight because you can't buy that experience anywhere and you can't make that ##### up in the training environment.

I hope you find this helpful.
 
IdahoBoy said:
Flyboy,

I said above- go fly freight because you can't buy that experience anywhere and you can't make that ##### up in the training environment.

I hope you find this helpful.
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Actual that hits dead on, Thanks. - - Isnt this forum great? I appreciate everones input both on here and on PMs I have recieved. and thanks to boieing747pilot for starting this thread.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
Um... ok. So do you have any questions?
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Would you do it all over again? You mentioned that you were "living the dream" before 9/11, are you living the dream now? I ask this because I do not want to make a mistake in my flying career and begin a path that I will later abandon.

Thank you
 
Sidious said, "Would you do it all over again? You mentioned that you were "living the dream" before 9/11, are you living the dream now?"

Excellent question! Good thinking Sidious!

The answer is yes, and no. Remember that when I started this little adventure I was fresh out of college... out of a University Flight Program. So I was hard-wired and programmed for that airline career.

Like many of you, I moved up through what I perceived to be the proper progression towards the my goal (major airline pilot). CFI -> Single pilot night freight -> Commuters -> Majors

Ok. So what changed?

Well, a few things.
  1. 09/11 - Aside from being furloughed for half a decade, 09/11 also resulted in lower pay, worse work-rules, and a pathetic excuse for a retirement compared to what I signed on for in 1999.
  2. Merger - The major I worked for merged with another company while I was on furlough. As a result I was stapled to the bottom of a much larger seniority list. The net result would be much longer time on reserve, much longer upgrade, and worse seniority closer to retirement. (pre merger I would have been in the top 10 #s on the seniority list for about 6 years at retirement.)
  3. Family - Ok, so i'm not a recent college grad anymore. It's been almost 15 years since I graduated from college. Over that time I got married, bought a house, and had a baby. I can no longer bounce all over the country chasing "the dream". I need to find a place to settle.
And let's be honest. Once you have a family, the "dream" no longer includes commuting half way across the country, spending countless nights in crashpads sleeping on an air-mattress, and/or spending 4-day trips in hotels.

Once you get a little older you realize that "the dream" is working as little as possible, spending as much time as you can with your family, and as few nights as possible away from home.

So as of today, that is where I am. At my current job I spend 2 to 3 nights a month away from home on the average. Most days I am home by 17:30 and having dinner with my family by 18:00.

Do I miss big airplanes? Sure do. Do I still fantasize about flying heavy metal over the ocean. Of course. That's why I am on this message board paying homage at the alter-of-Doug like everyone else. I'm trying to live vicariously through him!

But was it worth it to go back? No. At least not right now with a toddler at home. Maybe once he is in High School and wants nothing to do with me anyway. But for now, this is a great job... I'm paid MORE than if I had gone back to the majors (albeit, the majors top-end pay is higher). I have a terrific schedule, MORE vacation, BETTER health-care, and a BETTER retirement.

If I had gone back it would have been because of a horrible case of shiny-jet syndrome. That's not a good reason.

So would I do it all again? Gosh I dont know. It was great experience. I enjoyed the flying and wish I could do it again. But if I knew then what I know now, I would have made different choices. My life probably wouldn't even look the same as it does today.

My advice to you is to trust your instincts. Take your ride and work through each challenge as it happens. Think of it this way. You can't POSSIBLY screw up your career as badly as I have... and i'm doing ok! ;)

So you'll be fine too. Have fun!
 
Sidious said:
Would you do it all over again? You mentioned that you were "living the dream" before 9/11, are you living the dream now? I ask this because I do not want to make a mistake in my flying career and begin a path that I will later abandon.

Thank you
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Remember one thing in aviation: we all make mistakes.

Don't set your mind on a specific goal. Instead: go out, get as much information as you possibly can and decide what you want to do as your next step. Aviation is way to diverse with so many interesting parts, that you should enjoy every small step as long as you can and go from there.

Also: career goals and requirements on your QOL don't always go hand in hand. I'm sure, that most of us will follow a path some time and abandon it again. Those reversals are the situations that really help us to find out what we really want. :)
 
Like ZAP I will attempt to answer a very vague question. I currently fly corporate on a Learjet 60 with a company based in Phoenix. My experience is a bit different than ZAP's as our airplane is owned by a major hotel company but they are VERY frugal and want to make money on their airplane. So, they wnet out and got an aircraft management company to manage the plane and charter it (135) when the company is not using it. We (pilots) work for the management company and not the hotel due to control issues but that is not the point. Being that we fly 135 as well as 91 we are on the road much more than ZAP. Our company tries to follow Netjets with a 7/7 schedule but last month we lost a pilot and were short staffed. That month I was 21 days on the road. I find it unacceptable but we received a nice bonus for our hard work and promise that they will do everything they can to prevent such a mishap again. In any case, I fly awesome equipment, the Lear 60 is a 23,500# airplane and handles like a rocket ship. I fly all over the country as well into S. America. I am paid way better than an airline new hire but wil not top out as high. Medical/dental is 100% paid for by the company and I also have great benefits and retirement. I fly into major airports such as DTW and ORD and also into small places such as IXD (Olathe, KS) and PNC (Ponca City, OK) and everywhere in between. My last rotation I flew SDL-IXD-TEB-DTW-PWK-SUA-TEB-IXD-PNC-HND-TUS-HND. LOTS of flying as you can see over a week period.

Would I like to fly for a major? Sure. But I am married (no kids) but I have a level of living that I have to maintain and I can't afford to take a major paycut. One day, maybe to fly heavy iron over to Moscow but not today. All in all I love what I do. Our owner flights are great as we have a great relationship with them and our 135 flying is always different.

I recommend that you study hard, focus on your current task at hand. Be the best student in whatever you are currently training in and understand how to become an aviator and not just a pilot. Ask questions but know what you are asking. Detailed questions earn detailed answers. This site is full of people willing to help. Use us to your advantage. Good luck in your career progression and maybe we will see you in TEB, waiting patiently FOREVER for the runway 19 and the Dalton departure. Those of you who go to TEB know all about that.
 
Wish I flew a 60. I'll tell ya, some days I feel like the proverbial fat carny riding a tricycle in that 31a.
 
Actually, I recommend "Moondog's Academy of the Air and Other Aviation Disasters" by Pete Fusco for anyone considering a career in this industry.
 
I think alot of people lost the art of being an aviator. They get so caught up in SJS (shiny jet syndrome) that they forget why they get into it in the first place. That is why I believe instructing is so important, aside from learning airmanship you also have character instilled and hopefully you always remember why you started this.

Good luck.
 
Unfortunately, the industry and my life changed around me. The reasons I got into this business no longer apply. Sure, I still love the flying... (well at least the instrument approaches and landings), but at the end of the day this is the means to an end.

Fly plane. Get paycheck. Go home. Give paycheck to wife. Repeat as necessary.
 
Fly plane. Get paycheck. Go home. Give paycheck to wife. Repeat as necessary.[/quote]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA VERY FUNNY ZAP. The funniest post I've seen from you YET! :yup::nana2:
 
I hear ya. But sometimes, on a quiet night looking out the window at FL410 I remember why and it brings a small smile to me. Otherwise, it is pretty much the same for me. Fly plane, get paid, give to wife, repeat because it is always necessary. :)
 
fsiflyer said:
I hear ya. But sometimes, on a quiet night looking out the window at FL410 I remember why and it brings a small smile to me. Otherwise, it is pretty much the same for me. Fly plane, get paid, give to wife, repeat because it is always necessary. :)
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If you want to stay married anyway!:D
 
Sidious said:
Would you do it all over again? You mentioned that you were "living the dream" before 9/11, are you living the dream now? I ask this because I do not want to make a mistake in my flying career and begin a path that I will later abandon.

Thank you
Click to expand...


You know, for all the annoyances that come with working for a living, any of the jobs described still involved getting PAID TO FLY AIRPLANES.

I recently decided I didn't need a flying job to make me a millionaire- just pay me a reasonable, comfortable wage for the work I'm doing.

I spent over 8 years as a backseater in Army helos watching brand new 200 hour pilots hamfist Hawks around all day.. and my uniform wasn't the only thing that was green.


Now, even as much as it can suck on a bad day, I still get paid to fly. Industry fluctuations, crappy management and just plain BAD LUCK and sidetrack an otherwise 'perfectly planned' career.

Take your hopes and plans into consideration, sure, but if you sit around all day stressed out about upgrades, getting a 'major', etc.... you'll suck all the fun out of your job all by yourself.

Frankly that's working too hard.

Sucking the fun out of your job is crew scheduling's job. :laff:
 
ZapBrannigan said:
Fly plane. Get paycheck. Go home. Give paycheck to wife. Repeat as necessary.
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Well I still envy you and fsiflyer. Even if you guys still wish you flew the heavy metal I believe you have the greatest aspect of aviation. Maybe Im wrong and only you who are there would know. But I believe it, and it is my goal. Thanks for the info on this avenue
 
Sidious,
By no means would I try to have you stary from your goal. Please understand I love my job. I had a 9-5 office job which paid great but I was MISERABLE. I wish you the best of luck and even with all the negative aspects of aviation I still would not rather do anything else. All jobs have a negative side. Sometimes we just need to accept them and make the best of it all. Adapt and overcome. Good luck and I wish you the best. I hope we meet at some executive FBO somewhere soon.
 
fsiflyer said:
Sidious,
By no means would I try to have you stary from your goal. Please understand I love my job. I had a 9-5 office job which paid great but I was MISERABLE. I wish you the best of luck and even with all the negative aspects of aviation I still would not rather do anything else. All jobs have a negative side. Sometimes we just need to accept them and make the best of it all. Adapt and overcome. Good luck and I wish you the best. I hope we meet at some executive FBO somewhere soon.
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Well said. :nana2:
 
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