Corporate Pilots!

Ok, i'll go along with that. Just remember, job-security in aviation is an illusion. Save your pennies.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
Unfortunately, the industry and my life changed around me. The reasons I got into this business no longer apply. Sure, I still love the flying... (well at least the instrument approaches and landings), but at the end of the day this is the means to an end.

Fly plane. Get paycheck. Go home. Give paycheck to wife. Repeat as necessary.
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Sure beats the hell out of:

Sell Insurance. Get paycheck. Go home. Give paycheck to wife.
 
Does it?

I don't know much about selling insurance, but I do know that the insurance salesman doesn't bet his job on the successful outcome of a proficiency check every six months. He isn't required to maintain a medical. He probably works gentleman's hours (8-4 or 9-5) and is home each night to have dinner with his family.

It's all perspective. It is very possible that some Dwight Shrute type might take every bit the amount of joy from selling insurance as you do from flying airplanes.
 
I am disgruntled and the grass is greener right about now.

I felt as if I needed to start my reply like that so you know where I am coming from.

First off, my suggestion is go marry a rich woman and live off her and fly for fun.

Secondly, there is more to thinking every corporate gig is amazing or ######. I have had both, and let me tell you there really is no in between. I have been in corporate aviation since I was 20. I really can't complain because I do not know where I would be without corporate aviation. I have 4000 + hrs, 3 jet type ratings, and 1000 PIC in jets (trust me I know I am very lucky). I also obtained all this time and knowledge learning from someone that did everything my father. So when I say what I am about to say don't think that I hate corporate aviation because I don't.

I have had 6 jobs already in what 7 years and one of those jobs lasted 5 years. When tax laws change, a company starts under performing, or maintenance bills start piling up the first thing to go is the airplane. Even if you are flying for a fortune 500 company, its a false security blanket you have there. I know Xerox had a flight department that is non existent anymore and what happens 20 years down the line when the aviation department closes or is scaled back.

Personally, I would say to skip the 135 ####. I was gonna try not to swear about 135 but thats all that you can really describe it with. The pilots in a 135 are lower then whale #### in the middle of the pacific. They will try to run you by your duty time and break all kinds of rules with you, and they will keep doing it to you.

I am really not sure what my dream job is yet in aviation. I love what corporate aviation has given me and it is more then the airlines could have ever given to me at this point and im not talking monetary wise, but I am talking about time I got to share something that both my father and I love together with him. When he is gone, I will have some great stories to tell and thats how he will live on through me. My only warning is its not as glamerous as it seems, but niether are the airlines anymore. I think the days of high 800s to 1000s a day in corporate are done. I do a lot of contract work and the rates are dropping as 135s try to make up for added fuel costs which is a bunch of bs because they charge the customer for that. Anyways I probably didnt answer your question, but I feel if you are getting focused on what you are going to do with your aviation career and you arent a PPL yet you have a lot of awkening to do. When you get your first aviation jobn its going to suck for you. Everyone in here has gone through it. You have to pay your dues. You aren't gonna jump into a job with Nike on the G550, it will probably be for Blah Blah BLah Charters Inc. A 135 company out of Youngstown Ohio delivering checks and doing air ambulance with 25 days on and 5 hard days off a month for 29,000 as a FO on a CE525. So dont get your hopes up.
 
Flying Crutchman said:
Sure beats the hell out of:

Sell Insurance. Get paycheck. Go home. Give paycheck to wife.
Click to expand...

Ah - another "Some other career choice vs. Flying"

Great, another tool by management stooges to devalue your worth as a pilot because you think it's some great grand amazing adventure. I don't know about you, but I don't want to give management any room to devalue my professional worth.

It's just another job, with a good view. That's it.

It is a paycheck, it pays the bills, you goto work, get another paycheck, pay bills. . .

While you're at work, you hope you picked a stable company that wont go belly up, wash out your pension (HAH!), steal your vacation time, and won't provide health benefits for you and your 2.4 kids.

This whole illusion that (airline / professional) Flying is some great grand adventure is so odd to me. While I plan to fly for a living (and will start later this week), I'm not going to let anyone try to convince me that it is some great grand adventure so that they can use my emotions to devalue my worth as a professional pilot.

It's a job. The End.

Small light twin or single piston flying is indeed a great grand adventure. . .just to clarify.
 
GQ_Pilot said:
I am disgruntled and the grass is greener right about now.

I felt as if I needed to start my reply like that so you know where I am coming from.

First off, my suggestion is go marry a rich woman and live off her and fly for fun.

Secondly, there is more to thinking every corporate gig is amazing or ######. I have had both, and let me tell you there really is no in between. I have been in corporate aviation since I was 20. I really can't complain because I do not know where I would be without corporate aviation. I have 4000 + hrs, 3 jet type ratings, and 1000 PIC in jets (trust me I know I am very lucky). I also obtained all this time and knowledge learning from someone that did everything my father. So when I say what I am about to say don't think that I hate corporate aviation because I don't.

I have had 6 jobs already in what 7 years and one of those jobs lasted 5 years. When tax laws change, a company starts under performing, or maintenance bills start piling up the first thing to go is the airplane. Even if you are flying for a fortune 500 company, its a false security blanket you have there. I know Xerox had a flight department that is non existent anymore and what happens 20 years down the line when the aviation department closes or is scaled back.

Personally, I would say to skip the 135 ####. I was gonna try not to swear about 135 but thats all that you can really describe it with. The pilots in a 135 are lower then whale #### in the middle of the pacific. They will try to run you by your duty time and break all kinds of rules with you, and they will keep doing it to you.

I am really not sure what my dream job is yet in aviation. I love what corporate aviation has given me and it is more then the airlines could have ever given to me at this point and im not talking monetary wise, but I am talking about time I got to share something that both my father and I love together with him. When he is gone, I will have some great stories to tell and thats how he will live on through me. My only warning is its not as glamerous as it seems, but niether are the airlines anymore. I think the days of high 800s to 1000s a day in corporate are done. I do a lot of contract work and the rates are dropping as 135s try to make up for added fuel costs which is a bunch of bs because they charge the customer for that. Anyways I probably didnt answer your question, but I feel if you are getting focused on what you are going to do with your aviation career and you arent a PPL yet you have a lot of awkening to do. When you get your first aviation jobn its going to suck for you. Everyone in here has gone through it. You have to pay your dues. You aren't gonna jump into a job with Nike on the G550, it will probably be for Blah Blah BLah Charters Inc. A 135 company out of Youngstown Ohio delivering checks and doing air ambulance with 25 days on and 5 hard days off a month for 29,000 as a FO on a CE525. So dont get your hopes up.
Click to expand...


Very well said but let me harp in just a tad. First of I would like to think of myself just one notch higher than whale ^%$# in the pacific. I fly for a private company with a flight department but they want to keep bills low thus they put the aircraft on with a management company. Therefor, we fly 91 and 135. My company has not, nor does it now push us duty limit wise. Sure, sometimes days are long and we fly 8 hours but they do take care of us. There are some OK 135 operators out there. Now that said I see plenty of crappy 135 operators out there. DO YOUR HOMEWORK. I get paid very well for a type rated Lear 60 driver (we are co-captains but lets face it I am an FO). Other companies pay crappy wages. It all depends on the philosophy of the company and management. As for security...there is NONE. Today they like plane tomorrow they sell it for $5 profit. Always watch your six, make connections and keep your eye on the prize ($$$). Good luck and I hope things work out for everyone.
 
Just know I dont think 135 pilots are lower then whale skite, but the management of a lot of 135's need to get their head right because thats what they believe. I will probably get in trouble for saying this, but hell with it. They can think that because they can get any old "scab" (I call them scabs they really aren't the true definition of scab) to come over pay for their own training just so they can fly a jet. Thats why the corporate industry is where it is and why the 135 pilot is viewed as lower then whale skite by a lot of managements.

I am not saying yours is like that FSI, but if you worked for FSI at all I am sure you know by the stories you hear from guys coming in there. It is scary what is out there for 135 management, and what they think pilots should do to help their cause for less and less money.
 
GQ...I agree in general. Many management companies are dirty and who knows...my company in time may become jaded and go that route. So far we are very lucky and I have known the DO personally for many years and he is a standup guy. 20 years military and an entire career flying heavies over to China. Now he runs this outfit.

I encourage anyone interested in this area of aviation to do their homework. In an interview you are interviewing the employer as they are you. Find out what other pilots think of them and working conditions as well as QOL. There are good 135 companies out there that foster a good working environment and pay well. At my company we sometimes get stuck working extra days due to our growth and inability to get pilots trained fast enough but we are rewarded for that extra umph.
 
FSI flyer said, "In an interview you are interviewing the employer as they are you."

This is a great point and one that many people in aviation tend to overlook. I recently had a friend who is very senior at Chautauqua call me and ask, "Do you think I should go to Delta?"

I asked, "Have you been offered a job?" -- "No."
I asked, "Have you scheduled an interview?" -- "No."

"Then," I replied, "there is no decision to make yet."

I went on to tell him to send in an application. If they call him for an interview, go to the interview. What does he have to lose?

While there, take a critical look at their operation, their pay, their career progression, their retirement, etc. Interview them just as they are interviewing you.

This benefits the job-seeker in two ways. Number one, it puts you at ease. If you are looking for a job while you are already employed, it takes the stress off. I've been most relaxed and comfortable at an interview when I didn't really "need" the job I was seeking.

Second, it gives you the opportunity to carefully examine the operation. You're not a peasant begging for work! Write down all of those hard questions and ask the interviewer! If you don't like what you hear, then don't take the job. If they call and offer it say, "Thank you for the opportunity, I appreciate the offer but i'm afraid i'm going to have to decline at this time."

I've done it before. Trust me. They don't care. They would rather you decline now then take the job and leave right after they train you.
 
I've done it before. Trust me. They don't care. They would rather you decline now then take the job and leave right after they train you.[/quote]

Really? I didn't know that.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
Does it?

I don't know much about selling insurance, but I do know that the insurance salesman doesn't bet his job on the successful outcome of a proficiency check every six months. He isn't required to maintain a medical. He probably works gentleman's hours (8-4 or 9-5) and is home each night to have dinner with his family.

It's all perspective. It is very possible that some Dwight Shrute type might take every bit the amount of joy from selling insurance as you do from flying airplanes.
Click to expand...

You're right, it is all about perspective. I do know a lot about selling insurance, however. I've wasted the past 6 years of my life doing it. You're right, an insurance agent doesn't have to pass a proficiency every six months or maintain a medical. He does, however have to worry each month what kind of dollars he's going to bring home. You may start with a crappy level of pay when you first start as a pilot, but at least you know what you're going to bring home each pay.

I'm on straight commission and, let me tell you, it's no picnic. I'll spare you the details, but basically I had a cushy 60k job that wasn't commission-driven, but that's gone now. I now "eat what I kill." I'm on pace to make $20k this year. Oh, and that 9-5 thing? From the outside it may seem that way, but this is a 24 hour job. You take home everything with you after you leave the office. At least with flying, you're finished with the day once the airplane is put away (depending on what type of gig you have).

surreal1221 said:
Ah - another "Some other career choice vs. Flying"

Great, another tool by management stooges to devalue your worth as a pilot because you think it's some great grand amazing adventure. I don't know about you, but I don't want to give management any room to devalue my professional worth.

It's just another job, with a good view. That's it.

It is a paycheck, it pays the bills, you goto work, get another paycheck, pay bills. . .

While you're at work, you hope you picked a stable company that wont go belly up, wash out your pension (HAH!), steal your vacation time, and won't provide health benefits for you and your 2.4 kids.

This whole illusion that (airline / professional) Flying is some great grand adventure is so odd to me. While I plan to fly for a living (and will start later this week), I'm not going to let anyone try to convince me that it is some great grand adventure so that they can use my emotions to devalue my worth as a professional pilot.

It's a job. The End.

Small light twin or single piston flying is indeed a great grand adventure. . .just to clarify.
Click to expand...

Compared to being chained to your desk, it IS an adventure everytime you're in the air. Don't delude yourself into thinking that flying isn't an awesome career. Yeah, it's still a job, but it sure is more exciting than most careers.
 
As I sit here for 36 hours in a hotel in the midwest flipping channels and surfing the internet...(yawn) I wish something exciting would happen!
 
ZapBrannigan said:
As I sit here for 36 hours in a hotel in the midwest flipping channels and surfing the internet...(yawn) I wish something exciting would happen!
Click to expand...

LOL...I'm sitting out in SUS right now for about that same amount of time. You anywhere near here?
 
Boieng747pilot said:
Sorry guys,

Guess the question is too vague.
Anyway, I'm actually asking these questions because they ARE coming up close. Could be a few years, maybe even months! I already have my ppl and working more on getting a job.

Anyway, I was asking you guys for any comparisons, like Zap's post. Very nice... THAnKS
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Congrats on getting your private! What are you doing now flying wise?
 
Nope, not this week. I'm on the Indiana / Ohio border. This is my fourth night away from home in the last week and i'm a bit grumpy about it! (it's very rare for us).
 
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