How much is too much?

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bike21 said:
why does a person then complain about a $400 round trip ticket on a 4 hour flight?
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Over 25 years I spoke to my passengers face to face as much as possible, got involved when there were service problems, and even talked to the people sitting next to me in the cabin who wanted to get service issues off their chest. I have yet to mention that guy complaining about a $400 round-trip ticket that you all seem to run into all the time.
 
DE727UPS said:
"As a captain at the regionals today you will still need to use the skills you learned as a flight instructor in order to mentor your co-workers."

Well, what if you never were a flight instructor because the academy you went to said "seniority is everything, get on the list now". So, instead of wasting time with the CFI, you paid for an RJ course with a guaranteed interview and next thing your know....you're an airline pilot at 300 hours.
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That is an excellent question. I can usually tell a pretty big difference in the cockpit demeanor of the pilots who were never flight instructors. They tend to be "nervous nelly" type micromanagers who really just don't know how to let someone do their job. They would have a hard time flying with newhire FO's I bet, but I think most of them just solve the problem by excessive micro managing rather than "mentoring" and "teaching". It's good to let someone make their own decisions and let them see firsthand what happens, as opposed to micromanaging someone into doing it "your way everytime". Let them learn by doing, as long as the safety of the aircraft is not being comrpromised. Non-instructors probably have a hard time doing that.
 
flyover said:
Over 25 years I spoke to my passengers face to face as much as possible, got involved when there were service problems, and even talked to the people sitting next to me in the cabin who wanted to get service issues off their chest. I have yet to mention that guy complaining about a $400 round-trip ticket that you all seem to run into all the time.
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Well, let me clarify that not all people say it and I don't see it all the time. However I have certainly heard it more than once. Especially riding incognito in the back and talking to family/friends. If we could improve the overall customer experience, there would be fewer complaints. I commend pilots like yourself that interact with the pax. I do the same thing. They always seem to appreciate it and pays huge dividends for us all to professional, candid and honest with them.

We have gotten a bit off track here, but the problems our industry faces are not shouldered on just the passengers, the pilots, management, ATC, TSA, or any one entity. We have evolved to where we are today through a collective effort of screwing up. Now time to keep those sleeves rolled up and keep charging on to better times :)

Rant over :)
 
I heard it two weeks ago. Direct quote from a passenger (that was later escorted off the plane, BTW) "I'll do whatever I want for what I paid for this ticket." Seriously.

Don, for the last time, stop talking sense. :) What Don mentioned is what scares me the most, 300 hour guys with little to no real PIC experience faking their way through FO stuff until their seniority number is high enough to hold CA.
 
777forever said:
That horse has been beaten too:) It'll get much worse IMO. Major pay increase coming soon.
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I would certainly hope so. It is unfortunate to see that the trend in low minimums for hiring will give more fodder to the academies like ATP et al to say: Be a real airline pilot in only 5 months!! We found a way to make our program even shorter, it's called desperation!
 
DE727UPS said:
"As a captain at the regionals today you will still need to use the skills you learned as a flight instructor in order to mentor your co-workers."

Well, what if you never were a flight instructor because the academy you went to said "seniority is everything, get on the list now". So, instead of wasting time with the CFI, you paid for an RJ course with a guaranteed interview and next thing your know....you're an airline pilot at 300 hours.
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Or on the contrary, what if you got a banner towing job after your commercial, or pipeline control, or traffic check...or you see where i'm going.

Just because people dont have their CFI doesnt mean they paid a big academy to send them off without a CFI ticket.

But i see where you're getting at.

I think you can still end up a great captain and can still teach your FO without having that CFI ticket.
 
I've gotta say, the best pilots I've ever trained, and the best pilots I've ever flown with have been instructors.

So does that mean that I'm saying if you're not an instructor that you're a sub par pilot? No, not exactly. I will say that it PROBABLY means you're a sub par pilot. I've met some pretty crappy instructors that should have probably killed themselves and their students, but the ratio of folks that are instructors and crappy pilots is MUCH MUCH MUCH less than those of non instructors and being crappy pilots.

Get your flight instructor certificates, folks.
 
You are missing the point. Dual given *is* much more valuable time then banner tow or traffic watch, but at least people who do that are in command of an aircraft for a little bit. Don (and many others) take issue with the guys that have never been outside a left seat only training environment.
 
BobDDuck said:
You are missing the point. Dual given *is* much more valuable time then banner tow or traffic watch, but at least people who do that are in command of an aircraft for a little bit. Don (and many others) take issue with the guys that have never been outside a left seat only training environment.
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I understand his point, that's why i even said it.;)

I'm saying though, you can still be successful without being a CFI.
 
BobDDuck said:
You are missing the point. Dual given *is* much more valuable time then banner tow or traffic watch, but at least people who do that are in command of an aircraft for a little bit. Don (and many others) take issue with the guys that have never been outside a left seat only training environment.
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Wait, hold on.

You mean all time isn't equal? And that just because I WANT my time to be the most valuable time in the world...it might not be? How dare you counter my opinion!!!

!!!

!








(Ethan is spot on, folks. Just because your choices are not the best choices does not make it anybodies fault but your own).
 
Bigey said:
I understand his point, that's why i even said it.;)

I'm saying though, you can still be successful without being a CFI.
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Yeah, but you won't be as good! I can almost assure you of that much.

Do you want to be the best, or do you want to be a hack?

That's what it comes down to for me. Personally, I've never done much but the best I could and never settled for easy. Flight instructing IS NOT easy, and it turns you into one heck of a pilot.
 
I tend to agree here. While I learned a lot flying tours at Grand Canyon, simply because its difficult conditions, high DA, etc. I made my biggest strides while instructing. I did not particularly enjoy instructing which is why I only did it for a short time. I must however admit that it increased my skill level greatly.
 
Bigey said:
I understand his point, that's why i even said it.;)

I'm saying though, you can still be successful without being a CFI.
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Listen up bud!:) If you want to have that opinion, great! Just remember though, it's just that, your opinion, and it's not based on experience.;) Correct me if I'm wrong.

I agree with John, however, based on experience, I also agree with you Bigey to a point. I have flown with a couple non-instructors and they were excellent. They were definitely an exception though. Experienced instructors who are good pilots to begin with, make much better pilots and captains.


Too harsh?? Hope not, don't mean to be.:) Just my take on your last couple posts.
 
Hey guys, I have been reading this post along with the other similar posts for about a year now and have never jumped in. First, let me say that you can be sucessful (sp) in aviation without being a cfi. Now, having said that, My whole flying career was spent in the ag. flying business. A few years ago, I went and got the inst. rating. I was instructed by a young guy who at the time was 24 yrs. old. He was very knowledgeable about everything that came up in my training. Stuff i had no clue about. He was very professional, knew his stuff inside and out, was a very good teacher and was a good stick. I have since flown with other young, low time guys that were not instructors and had the same TT as my instructor and they were not even in the same league. I dont think my instructor was superpilot by any means, but he sure seemed to know what he was doing. He instructed for several years, then got a very nice corporate job. He;s doing allright. My point is , If i were young , and would have wanted to do anyother type of flying than what i did, I think starting out as an instructor would have been a win - win situation for the future gigs down the road. FLY SAFE T.C.:)
 
I can tell new CAs that weren't instructors pretty quickly, especially on landings. They're the ones sweating bullets. CFIs have been there done that, and they're the ones most likely to LET FOs make mistakes in order to learn instead of screaming "My controls!" in a cracking voice when the FO doesn't flare at the exact right moment. I had one of those guys freak when the continuous ignition message came up on rotation. "You're rotating too fast!" he yells. Dude, we're not stalling, and it's a short runway. Bet your ass I'm gonna rotate a little faster, but I'm not gonna get the friggin shaker. Now the guys I know that were instructors are much better at evaluating what does and does not constitute getting the airplane in an unsafe area. For example, it's pretty easy to plunk the CRJ on. Actually, it's DAMN easy. Once you've got some time and get a feel for the plane, then you can grease them. CA I flew with last week was flying with a new FO, and (shocker) he was an instructor in a previous life (the CA, not the FO. She was straight outta ATP with the RJ course). He said for her last three landings he was letting her do her thing, sorta coaching her along, but at the last minute she'd pull out too much power or not flare enough and.....BOOM. Landing becomes an arrival. I happened to be DHing on one of those. It was....um, firm. I know several CAs here that flew for a certain B1900 op outta FL that woulda taken the controls from her instead of letting her learn from her mistakes.
 
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