Denying the Jumpseat

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I'm no pilot at an airline or anything, but if I was a captain of an airline, I would accept who is nice enough to ask me for permission to sit up ther eand is proper. I wouldn't discriminate him because he is this and that.

thats like saying I don't offer my services to mexicans because most are illegal.

I don't discriminate. It was his decision, he chose to do what he wanted to do, then good for him. What can I say.
 
Taseal, that may not even be an option. If your manuals say that you can only take certain people, that's all you can really take. As a captain you can limit the scope of that, although you risk getting called on it, but you certainly can't broaden it.


Velocipede, that is a very fitting Avatar for you:D
 
DE727UPS said:
"told him he was a scum bag and wouldn't be getting a ride today"

HAHA.....that works....

I'd only deny a scab. Probably won't ever happen cause I get about one offline jumpseater a year and I don't check lists or anything. But I'd have no problem telling a scab why I denied him.

Streamers and Gojeters are free to ride with me. It would be an educational experience for all.
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What happens when they are your F/O? We have a few gulfstream and at least one gojet pilot/s.
 
We'll see...

The only streamer I've flown with was a street Capt. The Gojet guy, I imagine I'd listen to his side of the story and he'd listen to mine. Someone who started their career via Gulfstream PFJ is gonna understand why I think it's a bad idea when all is said and done.
 
Velocipede said:
Here's exactly what I said:

"For Gojets, jetBlue, Virgin and Skybus - "I don't extend Union negotiated benefits to non-Union pilots."

If you're not employed by one of those 4, you have nothing to worry about.
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Just to clarify, GoJets is union. They're represented by the Teamsters.
 
Kingairer said:
Got a face and an ID, Ive got a jumpseat for you.
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I knew I liked you KA........MY jumpseat, too....will be available for our fellow pilots. We're all in this poopstorm together...it's nice to see there are still guys/ gals out there trying to help each other out.
 
kellwolf said:
Just to clarify, GoJets is union. They're represented by the Teamsters.
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Great, they're union.....but they're also an alter-ego airline trying to usurp TSA's contract. It just doesn't seem like an acceptable set-up. Dunno how the process works over at TSA/ GoJets......are you given a choice when interviewing?
 
Cruise said:
Great, they're union.....but they're also an alter-ego airline trying to usurp TSA's contract. It just doesn't seem like an acceptable set-up. Dunno how the process works over at TSA/ GoJets......are you given a choice when interviewing?
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Didn't say they weren't on the bottom of the barrel, just trying to clear up facts. :)
 
Cruise said:
Great, they're union.....but they're also an alter-ego airline trying to usurp TSA's contract. It just doesn't seem like an acceptable set-up.
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Its not. Perhaps you should be a little more discriminating in who you offer jumpseat privileges to. Your future earnings/retirement may rest on how successful scumbag outfits like Skybus, Virgin and GoJets are.
 
Velocipede said:
Its not. Perhaps you should be a little more discriminating in who you offer jumpseat privileges to. Your future earnings/retirement may rest on how successful scumbag outfits like Skybus, Virgin and GoJets are.
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While I certainly appreciate your opinion on MY jumpseat. I'll offer it to whomever I want.....because it's MY jumpseat!









Isn't that a line straight out of the Velocipede playbook????? ;)
 
Cruise said:
While I certainly appreciate your opinion on MY jumpseat. I'll offer it to whomever I want.....because it's MY jumpseat!
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Absolutely! Then, after you've been giving Skybus guys rides (helping to make Skybus profitable and the NEW media poster airline for Deregulation) and your Company comes and takes 30% of your paycheck and your A-plan, be sure to thank the guy in the mirror for making it all possible.
 
Velocipede said:
Absolutely! Then, after you've been giving Skybus guys rides (helping to make Skybus profitable and the NEW media poster airline for Deregulation) and your Company comes and takes 30% of your paycheck and your A-plan, be sure to thank the guy in the mirror for making it all possible.
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And all because he let a Virgin/Skybus guy ride? C'mon, you're reaching...

:rolleyes:
 
While I'm not a fan of using a jumpseat as a political tool, well, I'm an FO so I don't HAVE a jumpseat!

But methinks his rationale is that Skybus would be using a union-negotiated benefit to allow their pilots to live outside of CMH. Utilizing other union-airline's jumpseats while bad mouthing the same unions that were able to lobby the FAA to allow an OAL observer. Look at the bottom rung carrier and that's whose costs your management is going to compel you to match.

Each new carrier flying at crackhead wages diminishes the probably of ever getting the passenger airline business back to a respectable level of compensation. Remember, we're simply a cost.

You can't both badmouth unions but expect to enjoy all the benefits that organized labor was able to procure.

Virgin's the devil too. Branson is going to use his worldwide network to sell tickets below cost in the US, knock out competition and then gradually raise prices, IMHO.

Just my opinion and I may be wrong, but Skybuses level of compensation is an absolute joke and yes, the pilots that think flying an A-319 for RJ rates are certainly standing between me and a restoration of compensation and benefits at my own airline.
 
Doug Taylor said:
While I'm not a fan of using a jumpseat as a political tool, well, I'm an FO so I don't HAVE a jumpseat!

But methinks his rationale is that Skybus would be using a union-negotiated benefit to allow their pilots to live outside of CMH. Utilizing other union-airline's jumpseats while bad mouthing the same unions that were able to lobby the FAA to allow an OAL observer. Look at the bottom rung carrier and that's whose costs your management is going to compel you to match.

Each new carrier flying at crackhead wages diminishes the probably of ever getting the passenger airline business back to a respectable level of compensation. Remember, we're simply a cost.

You can't both badmouth unions but expect to enjoy all the benefits that organized labor was able to procure.

Virgin's the devil too. Branson is going to use his worldwide network to sell tickets below cost in the US, knock out competition and then gradually raise prices, IMHO.

Just my opinion and I may be wrong, but Skybuses level of compensation is an absolute joke and yes, the pilots that think flying an A-319 for RJ rates are certainly standing between me and a restoration of compensation and benefits at my own airline.
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I get what he is saying. But allowing someone a jumpseat from his so called "axis of evil" isn't bringing down his pay or yours.

The management who negoiated said pay scales and more importantly the pilots who vote in and work for said lower wages be it a a non union or union carrier. Are more responsible for his pay and your pay being reduced vs. simply captains who allow pilots at Gojet, Virgin and Skybus to jumpseat.

Riddle me this Velo. If Virgin and Skybus both made it manadatory for their pilots to live in base wouldn't they still be "bringing down the industry" even without need to jumpseat on yours or anyone esles plane?
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Riddle me this Velo. If Virgin and Skybus both made it manadatory for their pilots to live in base wouldn't they still be "bringing down the industry" even without need to jumpseat on yours or anyone esles plane?
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Yes. What a disgusting concept. You are an airline pilot, you live were you want to and have the opportunity to commute to base.
 
Velocipede said:
Absolutely! Then, after you've been giving Skybus guys rides (helping to make Skybus profitable and the NEW media poster airline for Deregulation) and your Company comes and takes 30% of your paycheck and your A-plan, be sure to thank the guy in the mirror for making it all possible.
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I completely understand what you're saying!

I really don't want to get into this whole pissing match about who can/can't ride in the seat. Am I a fan of your 'axis of evil' airlines....NO. Does it mean I would NEVER allow one of their pilots to sit in the jumpseat.....NO. Not to berate a captive audience....but it's a great opportunity to have a chat about the decline of the industry while they're getting a ride home!?
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
I get what he is saying. But allowing someone a jumpseat from his so called "axis of evil" isn't bringing down his pay or yours.
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Sorry, Max, but you're wrong on this one. The ATA has all the carriers working from the same playbook. Ask any major airline pilot what the "song du jour" at negotiations from management is..."We pay market rates." When you get a Skybus or Virgin in the industry flying your size airplanes, the average (the "market rate") goes down. Since labor costs are the easiest airline cost to manage, they attempt to match that magical "market rate".

The management who negoiated said pay scales and more importantly the pilots who vote in and work for said lower wages be it a a non union or union carrier. Are more responsible for his pay and your pay being reduced vs. simply captains who allow pilots at Gojet, Virgin and Skybus to jumpseat.
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Your misconception here is that non-Union pilots have nothing to say about their pay and work rules after they've taken the job. To compare Union pilots who have had lower wages imposed on them either by bankruptcy judges and/or arbitrators to non-Union pilots who voluntarily work for substandard wages is comparing apples to oranges. And I'm not saying that Cruise is RESPONSIBLE for the deterioration in wages, simply that he's enabling the jokers who ARE responsible for it.

If Virgin and Skybus both made it manadatory for their pilots to live in base wouldn't they still be "bringing down the industry" even without need to jumpseat on yours or anyone esles plane?
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Absolutely. It would take away my best weapon to punish them with. But Doug makes a valid point...why on earth give away a Union negotiated benefit to people who are actively undercutting your contract? Professional courtesy only applies to those pilots, Union or non-Union, who are helping raise the bar for all of us. If there was a non-Union carrier paying their narrowbody pilots $300 an hour, they'd be more than welcome to ride my jumpseat. That's why Skywest guys are welcome. They pay wages that are commensurate with or exceed ALPA regional airlines.
 
Cruise said:
....but it's a great opportunity to have a chat about the decline of the industry while they're getting a ride home!?
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Unfortunately, your "chat" is attempting to close the barn door after the horse has departed. Once these toads have accepted employment with a scumbag outfit like Skybus or Virgin, the damage is done. They have demonstrated to all our managers that A320 pilots can be bought for $65 an hour just as jetBlue demonstrated they can be had for $129 an hour. And what is the norm for narrowbody Captains at the legacy carriers now? $129.

And that giant sucking sound you hear will the the continued deterioration of all our wages and working conditions. No amount of "chat" will change the fact that these guys have established a new low. Neither will it change the fact that you just made it easier for him to get to work and continue undermining our contracts.

Maybe its time to rethink your philosophy and consider the long term effect it has on your profession as well as YOUR future compensation, work rules, retirement and quality of life.
 
Velocipede said:
these guys have established a new low. Neither will it change the fact that you just made it easier for him to get to work and continue undermining our contracts.

Maybe its time to rethink your philosophy and consider the long term effect it has on your profession as well as YOUR future compensation, work rules, retirement and quality of life.
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Obviously Velocipede is passionate about this issue. Although I disagree somewhat with his delivery at times, his thoughts on the decline of our profession are valid. I am a pretty easy going guy but I must tell you that if a Virgin America, GoJets or Skybus pilot approached me for a ride, I would have to decline his or her request. There are jobs out there that by accepting them, you are no doubt crossing the line. There are many opportunities out there today and most new guys should set their sights on working for average to above average carriers and leave these scumbag outfits wondering why they can't get a single application for their substandard offerings. Only when that happens will progress at places like this be made. In fact, If that did happen, these places would cease to exist as they would have to compensate like legitimate carriers do which they would be unable to do. Their only weapons are cheap fares and they are able to do this by having sweatshop labor rates and deplorable working conditions. A pilot willing to work under these conditions just enables these evil doers. A new pilot joining the airline ranks would serve themselves well by avoiding pitfalls like crossing picket lines, working for places like we have been talking about and adopting a willingness to open their ears instead of their mouths for the first couple years.
 
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