Denying the Jumpseat

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Velocipede said:
I don't ask favors from non-Union carriers. I don't buy tickets on them, either.
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So are you saying if some airline is not a card carrying union, you wont allow pilots to jumpseat on your airplane? My company has an agreement with yours but we arent a union carrier, so would you deny me a ride?..And no, we arent 121, we are 135...
 
Velocipede said:
I don't ask favors from non-Union carriers. I don't buy tickets on them, either.
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You would actually deny a jumpseat to a JetBlue pilot? Just because they are non-union? I watched JBlue pilots jumpseat all the time on USAirways out of CLT headed to FLL when I was flying for PDT. Nice guys too.

That brings me to another question. Are non-union airlines and the pilots that work for them hurting the rest of the union pilots? Should pilots avoid non-union airlines at all costs? Is it as damaging as PFT like Gulfstream?

I personally know a furloghed American FO that got hired at JBlue, got to keep his seniority, and just got recalled back to American. Is he a scumbag for flying for a non-union airline while on furlough?

Lots of questions and I probably just opened up another can of worms...
 
B767Driver said:
CASS assigned seat or not, all jumpseating pilots are required to check in with the captain for his/her approval.
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I would never non-rev or jumpseat without thanking the crew, either before or after the flight depending on which is the best time to thank them. Its just a courtesy that I think someone with a little respect should do. But I wouldn't bother them if I see they are pretty busy before the flight. In that case on the way off the airplane I'd make sure to pop my head in and say thank you. Hell, I say thank you even when I'm a dead head or a paying customer. A little appreciation goes a long way, and when I'm at work it makes my day when customers, non revs or jumpseaters say thanks for the great job.
 
MSUDAWG said:
So are you saying if some airline is not a card carrying union, you wont allow pilots to jumpseat on your airplane? My company has an agreement with yours but we arent a union carrier, so would you deny me a ride?..And no, we arent 121, we are 135...
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Here's exactly what I said:

"For Gojets, jetBlue, Virgin and Skybus - "I don't extend Union negotiated benefits to non-Union pilots."

If you're not employed by one of those 4, you have nothing to worry about.
 
Velocipede said:
This is not true at all airlines. Once you are CASS approved and assigned a seat at my place, you are just another non-rev.
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I just caught a ride on you guys last week out of DFW. I did check in up front and the captain thanked me for doing so and said that it really bothered him that the company sort of pushed it that way. It seems that you guys are the ONLY ones that don't want people checking in. Just wondering if you knew the reason for why that is?
 
TheFlyingTurkey said:
You would actually deny a jumpseat to a JetBlue pilot? Just because they are non-union?
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No. Because they are willingly accepted a postion at a non-Union carrier that is undercutting my Union contract.

Are non-union airlines and the pilots that work for them hurting the rest of the union pilots? Should pilots avoid non-union airlines at all costs? Is it as damaging as PFT like Gulfstream?
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Yes and yes.

I personally know a furloghed American FO that got hired at JBlue, got to keep his seniority, and just got recalled back to American. Is he a scumbag for flying for a non-union airline while on furlough?
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Absolutely. There are plenty of ways to support your family during a furlough. Stabbing a whole profession in the back because you're too lazy to go out and get a 9 to 5 job is one step short of crossing a picket line. And the rationale he'll tell you is the same one scabs use: "I had to feed my family."
 
BobDDuck said:
...that the company sort of pushed it that way. It seems that you guys are the ONLY ones that don't want people checking in. Just wondering if you knew the reason for why that is?
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Because our "enlightened management" is dedicated to removing as much authority from the Captain as they can. They have transferred the approval authority for the CASS system from the flight deck to the CSA podium.

Probably just another indicator of the disdain they have for pilots in general.
 
DE727UPS said:
Velo will disagree.

Sorry, I'm bored..

He'll say it's the Capts seat to give away and the jumpseat committe has nothing to say about it.

At UPS, that is not the case.
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I realise we're arguing for a third party - but Velo can't claim to deny the jumpseat for GoJets et. al. because it's a "union negotiated benefit" and then claim the union has no interest in how that benefit is used (or abused).
 
meritflyer said:
Why isnt Skywest on there?
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Because he hasn't figured out that a CRJ-900 is the same size as a DC-9 and pays $80 less an hour in the right seat.

It's like France in WWII maing, they were so convinced that the Germans were gonna come running across the Maginot line (sp) that they were caught with their pants down when they rolled through Belgium first and then bent them over from there. The regionals are doing the exact same thing right now.

Good thing he's retiring soon and can watch the carnage from the sidelines while thinking, "Huh, but...they didn't affect my pay rates back then!!!!"

They sure as heck did, boss...
 
Airdale said:
I would never non-rev or jumpseat without thanking the crew, either before or after the flight depending on which is the best time to thank them. Its just a courtesy that I think someone with a little respect should do.
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I don't bother the flight crew if I'm non-revving or dead heading, and it has nothing to do with not having respect. I might fold the seatbelts though.
 
Ian J said:
Here's what I don't get about jumpseating. And yeah, I'm not a regional/ major airline pilot, so maybe I should just stick to the CFI forum, but in this case maybe an ignorant outsider viewpoint might make a little sense.

The way I understand jumpseat agreements, is they are supposed to benefit all parties involved. If I own airline "A," I want my pilots to be able to jumpseat on airlines "B" and "C" so they can get to and from work. In return, I extend the same benefit for "B" and "C" pilots to jumpseat on my airline. Tit for tat.

If the Captain is responsible for the safe operation of a flight, how does a particular jumpseater affect said safety? How does the jumpseater, no matter what airline they fly for, affect anything pertaining to the safe operation of a flight?

Stepping way outside the box, if I were an airline CEO, I would not want my captains making jumpseat decisions based on a political agenda. It's bad for business. Enough of airline "A" denying seats to those upstart "C" guys and eventually airline "C" will say "screw you, no more seats for you!" Now I can't get my guys to work.

Assuming the safe conduct of a flight is not an issue, why in the world are Captains allowed to make these very arbitrary jumpseat decisions? A good example would be Velo's example of a Captain denying a seat to a company pilot simply because the Captain himself didn't ask for jumpseats. How does that make any sense, and how does that help the company? Saying it's the Captain's prerogative isn't much of a reason, IMO.
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it's a carryover from when jumpseating started. Jumpseating technically refers to the actual seat in the cockpit. Because of that, the only way to use it is to ask permission. Standard etiquette dictates that you still ask for it regardless if you use it or not. Since it's a professional courtesy, it only makes sense.

I've had many instances where a Cathay pilot or some other foreign carrier pilot comes up to the cockpit to chat for a few minues. They had a paid ticket to go to work, but because they're in uniform and have a common "bond" with us, they come up to say hi. I personally think that's a classy thing to do. It's lost on a lot of new pilots, especially here in the U.S.

Just the other day, I had to deny the jumpseat to a new F/O because he apparently didn't know that a t-shirt, jeans and flip-flops were inappropriate jumpseat apparel....and I work at a regional with pretty laid back standards regarding that kind of thing.

and to really answer your question. The whole issue of jumpseating was never a company offered priveledge. It was started by pilots as a way of helping each other out. It was, and still is, the Captain's choice on whether he wants to offer that priveledge to a fellow pilot. You're right about politics having no place in the jumpseat.....it happens though.

The companies could care less how you get to work, as long as you get there. If they could have it their way, they'd make it mandatory to live within 2 minutes of the airport and a callout time of 15 minutes on reserve........I'd venture to say that a lot of the commuter clauses out there weren't easy to procure.....

one last thing......If you take a jumpseater who you don't like, or don't agree with, and you put him in the actual jumpseat because the company told you so, you're asking for a volatile situation which could potentially affect safety. Think being stuck in a coat closet with your mother-in-law for 4 hours.......
 
launchpad said:
it's a carryover from when jumpseating started. Jumpseating technically refers to the actual seat in the cockpit. Because of that, the only way to use it is to ask permission. Standard etiquette dictates that you still ask for it regardless if you use it or not. Since it's a professional courtesy, it only makes sense.

I've had many instances where a Cathay pilot or some other foreign carrier pilot comes up to the cockpit to chat for a few minues. They had a paid ticket to go to work, but because they're in uniform and have a common "bond" with us, they come up to say hi. I personally think that's a classy thing to do. It's lost on a lot of new pilots, especially here in the U.S.

Just the other day, I had to deny the jumpseat to a new F/O because he apparently didn't know that a t-shirt, jeans and flip-flops were inappropriate jumpseat apparel....and I work at a regional with pretty laid back standards regarding that kind of thing.

and to really answer your question. The whole issue of jumpseating was never a company offered priveledge. It was started by pilots as a way of helping each other out. It was, and still is, the Captain's choice on whether he wants to offer that priveledge to a fellow pilot. You're right about politics having no place in the jumpseat.....it happens though.

The companies could care less how you get to work, as long as you get there. If they could have it their way, they'd make it mandatory to live within 2 minutes of the airport and a callout time of 15 minutes on reserve........I'd venture to say that a lot of the commuter clauses out there weren't easy to procure.....

one last thing......If you take a jumpseater who you don't like, or don't agree with, and you put him in the actual jumpseat because the company told you so, you're asking for a volatile situation which could potentially affect safety. Think being stuck in a coat closet with your mother-in-law for 4 hours.......
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Thanks for the explanation - it makes a lot of sense.
 
launchpad said:
one last thing......If you take a jumpseater who you don't like, or don't agree with, and you put him in the actual jumpseat because the company told you so, you're asking for a volatile situation which could potentially affect safety. Think being stuck in a coat closet with your mother-in-law for 4 hours.......
Click to expand...

Exactly right. That's why the ALPA admin manual jumpseat policy dictates that BOTH pilots must be entirely comfortable with a jumpseater before he is accomodated. That goes for F/Os, too. If you don't want someone on the jumpseat for whatever reason, voice your concerns to the Captain.
 
The easiest way to figure out who owns the jumpseat (company or pilot group) is to see if it is included in the BOW of the aircraft. We tried for a while to get the jumpseat in there but the company (understandably in the CRJ) wouldn't take the weight penalty all the time.
 
Velocipede said:
Exactly right. That's why the ALPA admin manual jumpseat policy dictates that BOTH pilots must be entirely comfortable with a jumpseater before he is accomodated. That goes for F/Os, too. If you don't want someone on the jumpseat for whatever reason, voice your concerns to the Captain.
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Well said, Velocipede!
EVERY Captain I have flying with so far, asked me if I would accept a jumpseater in the cockpit when the cabin was full. If not, he won't take him and no further questions would be asked.
 
How do you guys feel about letting people jumpseat that do not have a reciprocating agreement? We only have reciprocating with SWA, (which is great to atleast have that). But I don't want to have to jump five legs trying to get from Burbank to Houston in the upcoming weeks. I think it is a big waste of CASS if I can't even use the privilege.:banghead:
 
Our FOM says that we can take anybody who is in CASS. There are a bunch of companies out there that are in CASS but don't allow jumpseaters and I've never seen somebody not take them. If there were two guys waiting for a jump seat and one could reciprocate and the other couldn't, I would think it would end up being biased one way though.
 
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