Scabs

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mojo6911 said:
This is just a question I am throwing out there, so don't jump down my throat. I am all for calling people scabs if they signed up for the union, and then jumped the picket line to go fly again. BUT

What is wrong with people who do not belong to the company, or the union, "outsiders" coming in and working? They signed no union agreement, and have no loyalty to either side. They are going in to do a job and get paid, and get the hell out of there.
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See post #17...

"Any pilot who flies a revenue flight carrying pax or repositioning aircraft while that airline is being struck is a scab!"
 
Bc its downgrading the PILOT GROUP as a whole....Put aside the union and the airline and saying you didnt work for them before the strike.....Its just out of pure respect, and also if you fill a seat while a guy is picketing, that could be a seat he doesnt get back.....
Basically if you are a pilot, and another pilot group is picketing, put on your uniform, pick up and sign and march in circles with them....
 
mojo6911 said:
I read that, but why blame the person coming in, if they have no ties with the union or the airline?
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A guy is striking to imporve his quality of life, while you are basically sleeping with his wife.

You do not do it. Doesn't matter if you have no ties with the union. Its something that you just don't do. If you do say good bye to your career.
 
ComplexHiAv8r said:
While it is NOT a good thing to do, I dont think it is a career killer. We keep hearing about scabs moving up, changing airlines, and the such.
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I jumpsat on a United flight one time on an Airbus (two seats). There was another United jumpseater that was a scab back in the '85 strike still with the company. I was treated better than he was by the flight crew.

You only hear about the guys that do go on. That is only a small percentage on the scab list.
 
ComplexHiAv8r said:
While it is NOT a good thing to do, I dont think it is a career killer. We keep hearing about scabs moving up, changing airlines, and the such.
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Dude, it's a career killer. Trust me on this.

What do you think would happen if there was a new hire at a major who was a scab during a legally authorized strike? I doubt if he'd survive probation because at least at my airline, after every rotation, the captain has to do a mandatory assessment of your performance.

Do NOT take scabbing lightly.

Right or wrong, whether you think it's ethical or not, it doesn't matter because for the rest of your career, thru recurrent training events, aircraft upgrades, line checks and whatnot, if you're "that guy that scabbed at United" at another airline, well, it's just not where you want to be.
 
Seggy said:
I jumpsat on a United flight one time on an Airbus (two seats). There was another United jumpseater that was a scab back in the '85 strike still with the company. I was treated better than he was by the flight crew.

You only hear about the guys that do go on. That is only a small percentage on the scab list.
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True, but it didnt kill their career. Just think of that woman pilot at UAL..
And there may be lot that left the industry, but ALOT are leaving that aren't scabs either.
 
I am most certainly not a fans of scabs or scabbing - let me clarify this first.

However what about the guy who has a sick kid at home and really has no choice? He MUST keep insurance, he MUST pay the medical bills etc. I know this is an extreme case but what about redemption? Forgiveness?

I know families come together during strikes and help each other out which is amazing, but what about the few legit extreme cases? True scabs for life?
 
ComplexHiAv8r said:
True, but it didnt kill their career. Just think of that woman pilot at UAL..
And there may be lot that left the industry, but ALOT are leaving that aren't scabs either.
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So you aren't a pilot for "XYZ Airlines" or in ALPA when the XYZ pilots go on strike. You decide to cross the picket line and work for XYZ. Let's see what the next 25 years will be like:

1. You may not get to stay at XYZ when the strike is settled, depending on the back-to-work agreement between the company and union. Some companies have fired their scabs because they want peace with the union. Now, not only are you a scab, you're out of a job!

2. If you lose your XYZ job you will be branded and will not ever get another offer of employment. The pilots who hire are in the union even if they're management and the companies don't want the CRM problems...

3. Your name will go on the "scab list." There is such a thing, I have a copy... Many, many pilots carry their's in their flight kit and consult it before allowing pilots on the jumpseat... I have personally witnessed 3 different scabs be denied the jumpseat at 3 different airlines...

4. XYZ fights the union and you get to keep your job. Now you are a marked man. You crossed the picket line and took bread out of the mouths of all the rest of the pilots on XYZ's list. You better hope you never: slide off the end of a runway, bust an altitude, have a bad day in the simulator, make a remark to a co-worker which they don't like, etc., etc.... The chief pilots, while they represent XYZ and are generally "company men," also come from the ranks of the pilot group and are members of the union, so you're not likely to get much help there. Forget any help from the union. You're on your own.

5. You will be ostracized by the pilot group. Noone will talk to you in the cockpit other than to run a checklist, noone will go out with you on layovers, you will be denied jumpseats...

6. You will have to perform flawlessly on every training event for the rest of your career...


These are just the ones I could think of, I'm sure there are more...

Get the picture?


Kevin
 
You'd be better off having VD in your health record than the word scab associated with you..
 
bike21 said:
Thanks Doug. So are there any hypothetical extreme cases? Just wonderin' aloud here...
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Well, there's a couple of points I'd like to preach about.

If you're an airline pilot, love it or hate it, you're entering a world that's highly unionized. Truth be known.

Every few years when the contract is negotiated, you run the possibility of running into an impasse during negotiations with the company. Your only tool is withdrawl of service when the contract ends and there's no settlement in sight.

Whatever business you're in, whether it's aviation, medicine, trash collecting or even working at Subway Sang'wiches, you NEED a financial cushion. The more you make, the more of a cushion you need because if there is an interruption of pay, you don't want to instantly go insolvent and have to start selling all of your crap for pennies on the dollar.

Get any job (flying, nonflying), build a 'financial standby kit'.

You HAVE to do this. You do not have a choice. I don't care what the excuse is or how little one makes, but you need to look at your realistic basic living expenses and start stockpiling at least a couple months of that.

So when/if your airline goes:

a. On strike. (been there)
b. Bankrupt (done that)
c. Furloughs you (whew, avoided this one so far)
d. Gets temporarily grounded by the feds (happened at my flight school i worked at! STILL owes me money)

You're able to feed yourself and your family.

I don't care if a person has 15 kids, ex-wives and financial commitments out the ying-yang, you need an emergency fund. I can listen to every excuse on earth on why someone decided to scab, but truth be known, as mean as it sounds, where in the hell was your emergency fund?

Scabbing is about like going to a prostitute because your wife won't put out and you expect her to think everything is hunky dory after the ordeal is over.

Ain't...

Gonna...

Happen.
 
If you ever come accross a scab and hear them talk about it (believe it or not some LOVE to tell their strory) they either give you some sob story about how they couldn't go on strike, take great pride in scabbing, or really have zero regard for what others think of them. One thing is for certain they are all extremely selfish. For every scab who gives you a sob story I'll show you 10 other guys who gave up twice as much and went on strike.

For me, I enjoy the respect of my coworkers too much to even consider crossing a picket line. It's just not an option. This profession will have a hard enough time as it is recouping what we've lost.
 
Doug Taylor said:
Right or wrong, whether you think it's ethical or not, it doesn't matter because for the rest of your career, you're "that guy that scabbed
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This is the answer I was kind of looking for. I guess it doesn't matter what you think personally of scabs, because it will kill your airline career or make it unbearable.
 
staplegun said:
1. ...you're out of a job!

2. If you lose your XYZ job you will be branded and will not ever get another offer of employment.

6. You will have to perform flawlessly on every training event for the rest of your career...
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I thought that the CA from UAL had walked across twice at 2 different airlines. Please confirm this please, as I HATE the search function here!

I DON'T AGREE WITH SCABS, but apparently the unions dont have enough balls to keep a scabber (is that a word) out of their ranks.....

Please correct me where I am wrong.
 
Doug Taylor said:
I don't care if a person has 15 kids, ex-wives and financial commitments out the ying-yang, you need an emergency fund. I can listen to every excuse on earth on why someone decided to scab, but truth be known, as mean as it sounds, where in the hell was your emergency fund?
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You must listen to Dave Ramsey? Total Money Makeover anyone? Im a big fan!
 
ComplexHiAv8r said:
I DON'T AGREE WITH SCABS, but apparently the unions dont have enough balls to keep a scabber (is that a word) out of their ranks.....
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Under the law, there is not a lot a union can do legally to keep scabs out of the ranks. Choosing not to strike is protected just as choosing to strike is protected.
 
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