happy to be alive

[jtrain609]

What I think this kid forgot is that it's almost never too late to put the power in and get back in the air to figure things out. You're almost always safer taking it around in a Cessna 172 and figuring things out in the air than trying to force the airplane to stay on the ground.

 

[E_Dawg]

Maybe we're off a bit here. I guess it's fair to expect poor judgment from a newly minted pilot.


What we should expect is CAUTION, and I didn't detect much of that.






.

I dont know... it doesn't take ANY experience to know you don't go trying another takeoff after you just crashed (in the same weather conditions nontheless.) Did he even fill 'er up after the accident??

And it doesn't really matter in this case but I'm pretty sure that fuel gauge thing is a wive's tale. As far as I know they're calibrated empty but are supposed to read accurately all the time (even though they dont).

 

[TonyC]

By posting his experience he wasnt asking you to kick him in the balls. You werent there. You base your criticisms off of one paragraph.

Until you were there, experience the conditions he flew through, know his skill and proficiency level, know the aircraft he was flying, know the winds he was flying in, ect, I'd keep quiet.

First off, there were four paragraphs. If you based your posts on just one paragraph, I can understand where you might have different perspectives.


But hang on, you're telling him to be quiet when you weren't quiet. You weren't there, you didn't experience the conditions he flew through, you weren't there to see the damage to the airplane, the light that he crashed into, the ditch that he drove through, or how he determined it was OK to take off in crosswinds he had just proven he couldn't handle in an airplane that was already damaged with less fuel than he was comfortable continuing with. Sounds like a lot of mistakes for the first cross-country the day after he earned his PPL. But you know he learned his lesson?

His lesson has already been learned.

How do you know that?





I think the fear here is real, and it's based on the post he made. It's not intuitively obvious that he learned the important lessons.





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[pilotots]

Nobody commissioned you to be the executioner.

And I didn't ask you to comment on my post, but you did. It's a forum, I would say the same thing to him in person. He asked for my input by posting here just as I'm open to your comments because I post.

I call them like I see them, he was a fool and very lucky to be alive. I wish him the best but I hope he gets more training before he goes up again. And no I'm not the "executioner" I didn't almost kill him, he did that himself.

 

[FLpilot]

From his previous posts, it took him 90 hours to get his private and this was his first flight, post-checkride. I'm no expert, but it seems he has yet to develop much, if any, decision making ability. I am not trying to sound harsh, but I hope the original poster responds with more info.

http://forums.jetcareers.com/showthread.php?t=36514

 

[E_Dawg]

The people that scare me in flying are the one's who can't seem to scare themselves.

And it really doesn't sound like you scared yourself much at all. Sure, you're happy to be alive (most of us are.)

But you obviously didn't scare yourself out of trying to fly the plane you just crashed in the same winds with the same low fuel, as far as I can tell.

 

[TonyC]

Plus, I am the king of cool Tony. You know better than to argue with me.

Yeah, I'd like to see the "king of cool" rescuing his student from Van Wert after his student had crashed through a light, gone "four-wheelin'" through a ditch, and then tried to take off again.


Whew.


Add in that the airplane is the one you're scheduled to use most of next week to earn money to put bread on your table... add in the dinner you missed by having to go rescue him. Add in the phone call you're expecting from the FSDO tomorrow morning.


Let's see Mr. Cool when the phone rings.



I think we all have this guy's best interests at heart, but we see different ways of serving those interests. Let's not lose sight of the goal -- safe flying.




.

 

[taseal]

As a newly minted pilot, he should have shown better judgment.

so a not so new pilot shouldn't show judgment?

I think getting the balls to post such a thing on a forum knowing people are going to call you dumb, irresponsible etc was enough balls to show he realizes now what he did...

again, I guess being a new pilot (hell he JUST got his license) and his 1st time flying as a PPL he got confused, worried and did something wrong like trying to take off again... I have no argument in that... I know if I ever did that I would probably park, get out figure out wtf just happened, and if everything on the plane seems fine, go chill for a bit at the FBO and then go back up... now if I go through a sign, with no fuel, almost flipping the plane, I highly doubt i'm gunna say oh #### i'm outta here! lol

just because he doesn't have a full report on what happened and signs his name saying his mistake is realized doesn't mean he doesn't realize it...

 

[rightrudder86]

For those of you who said i was "stupid" and a "fool", you don't know the situation and nobody appointed you judge, jury, and executioner.

Second of all, i DID NOT try to take off in a DAMAGED airplane. The damage happened on the second takeoff attempt, the first time i ran off the runway but the plane was fine, i got out on the ramp and visually inspected it and there was no damage. The winds suddenly shifted from a 10kt xwind to a 21kt crosswind. I also had 16 gallons total fuel in the tank, not dangerously low but there was a stronger than expected headwind and i didn't want to put myself in the situation of running out of fuel, so i planned a stop on the way back!

Thirdly, i realize my mistakes. I should NEVER have tried to land there with that crosswind, i should have went around. Was i scared? YES!!!!!! I will NEVER do anything like that again and i will most likely never fly again. As for the FAA taking my license i did nothing illegal and i filled out a NASA form.

I KNEW i should have never posted this here.

 

[TonyC]

I think getting the balls to post such a thing on a forum knowing people are going to call you dumb, irresponsible etc was enough balls to show he realizes now what he did...

One should be careful not to mistake ignorance for courage.









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[darrenf]

so a not so new pilot shouldn't show judgment?

Did I say that?? No, I am saying now he is no longer a student, he should have shown better judgement.

I think getting the balls to post such a thing on a forum knowing people are going to call you dumb, irresponsible etc was enough balls to show he realizes now what he did...

Well you are right there, he definately has balls.. as evidenced by attempting a takeoff in weather he already demonstrated he couldn't handle, in a plane with questionable amounts of fuel.

again, I guess being a new pilot (hell he JUST got his license) and his 1st time flying as a PPL he got confused, worried and did something wrong like trying to take off again... I have no argument in that... I know if I ever did that I would probably park, get out figure out wtf just happened, and if everything on the plane seems fine, go chill for a bit at the FBO and then go back up... now if I go through a sign, with no fuel, almost flipping the plane, I highly doubt i'm gunna say oh #### i'm outta here! lol

just because he doesn't have a full report on what happened and signs his name saying his mistake is realized doesn't mean he doesn't realize it...

That is why I am hoping he returns to write more and show evidence that he does now realize the mistakes he made, and can apply that to flying in the future.

I am interested in how the rest of his story turns out.

 

[darrenf]

For those of you who said i was "stupid" and a "fool", you don't know the situation and nobody appointed you judge, jury, and executioner.

Second of all, i DID NOT try to take off in a DAMAGED airplane. The damage happened on the second takeoff attempt, the first time i ran off the runway but the plane was fine, i got out on the ramp and visually inspected it and there was no damage. The winds suddenly shifted from a 10kt xwind to a 21kt crosswind. I also had 16 gallons total fuel in the tank, not dangerously low but there was a stronger than expected headwind and i didn't want to put myself in the situation of running out of fuel, so i planned a stop on the way back!

Thirdly, i realize my mistakes. I should NEVER have tried to land there with that crosswind, i should have went around. Was i scared? YES!!!!!! I will NEVER do anything like that again and i will most likely never fly again. As for the FAA taking my license i did nothing illegal and i filled out a NASA form.

I KNEW i should have never posted this here.

Well it is not our fault we had an incomplete picture of the situation, we all made our judgements based on your original post. Perhaps if you re-read your original post you can understand the harshness directed your way. I am glad you are ok, and that your decision making isn't nearly as dangerous as we would have believed.

So, what was the damage to the airplane, and are you on the hook for the repairs??

 

[pilotots]

For those of you who said i was "stupid" and a "fool", you don't know the situation and nobody appointed you judge, jury, and executioner.

Second of all, i DID NOT try to take off in a DAMAGED airplane. The damage happened on the second takeoff attempt, the first time i ran off the runway but the plane was fine, i got out on the ramp and visually inspected it and there was no damage. The winds suddenly shifted from a 10kt xwind to a 21kt crosswind. I also had 16 gallons total fuel in the tank, not dangerously low but there was a stronger than expected headwind and i didn't want to put myself in the situation of running out of fuel, so i planned a stop on the way back!

Thirdly, i realize my mistakes. I should NEVER have tried to land there with that crosswind, i should have went around. Was i scared? YES!!!!!! I will NEVER do anything like that again and i will most likely never fly again. As for the FAA taking my license i did nothing illegal and i filled out a NASA form.

I KNEW i should have never posted this here.

You appointed us judge, jury, and executioner by making such a post. Next time maybe you'll add more information to the story before you post. As for the FAA they can take your certs for any reason they want, I don't think they will be happy with the incident.

The aviation community does not mix well with people who make mistakes. Aviation is not forgiving in many ways, your career, your reputation and your life are all on the line. I wish you the best of luck, next time put more thought into your flying. And I think your post about the incident is helpful for all, while it might not be easy for you to read these replies it will be positive for you in the long run.

 

[meritflyer]

You appointed us judge, jury, and executioner by making such a post.

Stupid assumption.

rightrudder86, next time maybe reconsider posting an event that people can actually learn from, for better or worse.

Unfortunately, many PPLs dont get great x-wind landing experience during their training. I'd definately go out with a CFI and work on your stuff.

What doesnt kill will make you stronger.

 

[taseal]

well whatever you do dude, dont give up on flying.... perhaps what you need is to get an inst. (maybe the same, maybe another) and then practice some crosswind landings?

 

[darrenf]

Stupid assumption.

rightrudder86, next time maybe reconsider posting an event that people can actually learn from, for better or worse.

So, no one should post unless they are guaranteed not to catch flak?? I don't think that would ever stop you merit. As it shouldn't.

 

[mhcasey]

So you landed, but ran off the runway into a ditch, then tried to takeoff again, and ran off the runway into a ditch again?

Break down your story from step one again. It just doesn't make sense right now.

"...but i was able land and touched down on the centerline, but i guess took the xwind correction out too early, and i was blown right off the runway, crashed into a runway light, ran into a huge ditch and nearly flipped the plane completely over."

That happened on the landing, right?

"I was able to taxi back to the terminal, but it was closed, so i attempted another takeoff, which i had to abort because of the winds."

And by abort, you mean you crashed and damaged the airplane?

 

[darrenf]

Not an assumption, a misread, and I fixed it while you were typing your reply.

 

[pilotots]

So meritflyer - in your world nobody should post unless it's a "happy positive post"? The majority of people here seem to think he made some very very bad mistakes and was foolish.

I stand by each and every word I made. Even based on this guy's second post.

 

[Murdoughnut]

Not that this applies to this situation, but haven't some of you instructors had a student who just didn't get it? In five years of teaching college, I realized that there are essentially four types of student: 1) Hard-working with skills; 2) Lazy with skills; 3) Hard-working with no skills; 4) Lazy with no skills.

In aviation, I would assume that #1 is ideal, #4 will probably never finish their license, and thus #2 and #3 have the highest likelihood of killing themselves. I asked my instructor once if she ever had a student who just couldn't get it. She said she did - no matter how much this guy studied, no matter how hard he tried, he just couldn't fly the airplane. At around 100 hours, he finally realized that that not everyone can become a pilot.

This situation seems to be more along the lines of poor decision making which doesn't exactly fit the typology, but I'm just curious if anyone else has had to tell a student that they probably weren't cut out for flying. Just curious.