Being a CFI at UND vs Being a CFI at XXX FBO

[ZUKO]

Although, I have a while before I will make this decision I am curious to everyones opinion. I know we have a couple people on here who have gone both routes.

Pro's of staying at UND for CFI
-----------------------------
Can be a CFI while still being in school
Nice aircraft
Having regionals come to the school to hire at lower levels then advertised mins
Students who want to make progress

Cons
------------------------------
UND Safety Bubble
Grand Forks
Weather

 

[Dugie8]

Although, I have a while before I will make this decision I am curious to everyones opinion. I know we have a couple people on here who have gone both routes.

Pro's of staying at UND for CFI
-----------------------------
Can be a CFI while still being in school
Nice aircraft
Having regionals come to the school to hire at lower levels then advertised mins
Students who want to make progress

Cons
------------------------------
UND Safety Bubble
Grand Forks
Weather

I'm not sure of this safety bubble you speak of. For students on solos, yup they are on a bit of short leash, but as an instructor you can do pretty much anything you want, just fill in the squares.

 

[ZUKO]

I'm not sure of this safety bubble you speak of. For students on solos, yup they are on a bit of short leash, but as an instructor you can do pretty much anything you want, just fill in the squares.

I was refering to a person who has only flown in the UND system.

 

[Dugie8]

I was refering to a person who has only flown in the UND system.

There really is no UND system, nothing watered down about the ATC enviroment, etc. The safety bubble thing is those that don't want to go outside of the TCO, nothing wrong with that.

 

[ZUKO]

There really is no UND system, nothing watered down about the ATC enviroment, etc. The safety bubble thing is those that don't want to go outside of the TCO, nothing wrong with that.

I see. I was thinking it also had to do with flying in such a limited area.

 

[Dugie8]

I see. I was thinking it also had to do with flying in such a limited area.

Well you do fly in a limeted area, but honestly, you do at most any other FBO too. It all comes down to money, if you go to mom and pop FBO, every lesson isn't going to be some excursion to far off fantasy land, where you cross multiple types of terrain, etc, etc.

It does seem to get routine flying to pracice area Charlie, but just because it is UND doesn't make it a "bubble" or in any way less "valuable" than flying from GFK Flight Support.

Now, the Grand Forks part, you may not be able to stand it for the 3 plus years you might have to instruct to get to around 1200 to 1500 hours, with about 400 multi.

 

[undsioux1]

Although, I have a while before I will make this decision I am curious to everyones opinion. I know we have a couple people on here who have gone both routes.

Pro's of staying at UND for CFI
-----------------------------
Can be a CFI while still being in school
Nice aircraft
Having regionals come to the school to hire at lower levels then advertised mins
Students who want to make progress

Cons
------------------------------
UND Safety Bubble
Grand Forks
Weather

Im sure most instructors would say the Pros outweigh the cons by a longshot. heres my list

Pros
as mentioned above, aircraft, hiring, ect.
college environment
motivated students/instructors
personal use of aircraft
instructor rates for MEI applicants
lots of instructors=big family, as cheesy as it sounds
getting paid to watch Office Space

Cons
large instructor core, less easily to please everyone
select few "snitch" flight instructors
regulated environment (mostly applies to students)
Who stole the cheese?

All in all you can tell most instructors love it here.

 

[DE727UPS]

"if you go to mom and pop FBO, every lesson isn't going to be some excursion to far off fantasy land"

The mom and pop FBO experience will get you out of the "sheltered" environment that an academy like UND produces. You'll deal with things and see things you'd never see at UND. Some of them aren't pretty but they build character and expand your experience level.

I've seen it first hand with UND grads here in Spokane. An example would be checking out a UND guy in a Cessna. Here's a guy with a CFI and 200 hours dual given and I nearly need to take the airplane from him on his first couple of landings (I'm a fast talker). Really, the world outside the bubble expects more than that.

Staying inside the bubble will lead to a regional job just as fast as going outside will, maybe faster. I think leaving your mother before proceding in this career, however, will teach you things you never imagined.

 

[ZUKO]

Well you do fly in a limeted area, but honestly, you do at most any other FBO too. It all comes down to money, if you go to mom and pop FBO, every lesson isn't going to be some excursion to far off fantasy land, where you cross multiple types of terrain, etc, etc.

It does seem to get routine flying to pracice area Charlie, but just because it is UND doesn't make it a "bubble" or in any way less "valuable" than flying from GFK Flight Support.

Now, the Grand Forks part, you may not be able to stand it for the 3 plus years you might have to instruct to get to around 1200 to 1500 hours, with about 400 multi.

1200-1500 hours with 400 multi? Do you think the mins are going to raise a lot in the future? I was thinking about getting 1000 at most here and hopefully getting on with Horizon. A lot can change by the time Im ready.

 

[undmj23]

Ok this is my first post even though I have been looking at this site for about a year, here is my opinion on this subject I went to und and got all my ratings but I moved to MI in the fall of 2004 and worked at Oakland flight services for 15 months. UND is a great environment to get all your rating and your degree but once your done look at a part 61 school to get your instructing, I just found that route so much better then staying in GF and flight instructing. I got about 1.000 hours within 15 months and got a great corporate job near there because of the connections I made while I was at new Hudson.
PS if anyone from und is looking for for a FI job send me an e mail
:nana2:

 

[Tommay85]

"if you go to mom and pop FBO, every lesson isn't going to be some excursion to far off fantasy land"

The mom and pop FBO experience will get you out of the "sheltered" environment that an academy like UND produces. You'll deal with things and see things you'd never see at UND. Some of them aren't pretty but they build character and expand your experience level.

I've seen it first hand with UND grads here in Spokane. An example would be checking out a UND guy in a Cessna. Here's a guy with a CFI and 200 hours dual given and I nearly need to take the airplane from him on his first couple of landings (I'm a fast talker). Really, the world outside the bubble expects more than that.

Staying inside the bubble will lead to a regional job just as fast as going outside will, maybe faster. I think leaving your mother before proceding in this career, however, will teach you things you never imagined.

I don't know if I agree with that completely. I've been in both settings and both of them have the effect of being "sheltered" when you get used to the area. I flew around the Chicago area no less. There's only so far you can go with a small airplane, unless you don't mind spending lots and lots of money doing multi-leg cross countries to get out of your local area, which we're allowed to do here as well.

I will agree with you about the sheltered thing in that 141 schools have policies that dang near make the go/no-go decision for you. When I look around here, I think that is something some people just frankly have no clue on how to make that decision mainly in relation to weather. A good instructor can take care of that though.

 

[JaceTheAce]

I see. I was thinking it also had to do with flying in such a limited area.

You're right. You are severely limited to doing what you want to do. You must obtain SPECIAL permission to actually take a crew car to visit a destination on your cross-country and consider yourself extremely lucky to get more than 4 hours approved. I had to get extra special permission when visiting Duluth, MN on my cross-country. I was 30 minutes overdue even though I called the big bad SOF to let them know and they bitched me out for being late.

But the big advantage you have here is... well-maintained aircraft to instruct in and more consistant instruction hours. The disadvantages here are the obvious...

 

[ZUKO]

You're right. You are severely limited to doing what you want to do. You must obtain SPECIAL permission to actually take a crew car to visit a destination on your cross-country and consider yourself extremely lucky to get more than 4 hours approved. I had to get extra special permission when visiting Duluth, MN on my cross-country. I was 30 minutes overdue even though I called the big bad SOF to let them know and they bitched me out for being late.

But the big advantage you have here is... well-maintained aircraft to instruct in and more consistant instruction hours. The disadvantages here are the obvious...

I really like the state of the art aircraft but sometimes I think the GPS hurts pilots more then helps them. A lot of people I know rely on the direct to function including myself sometimes.

 

[JaceTheAce]

I really like the state of the art aircraft but sometimes I think the GPS hurts pilots more then helps them. A lot of people I know rely on the direct to function including myself sometimes.

Just follow the pink line! :insane:

 

[Screaming_Emu]

You're right. You are severely limited to doing what you want to do. You must obtain SPECIAL permission to actually take a crew car to visit a destination on your cross-country and consider yourself extremely lucky to get more than 4 hours approved. I had to get extra special permission when visiting Duluth, MN on my cross-country. I was 30 minutes overdue even though I called the big bad SOF to let them know and they bitched me out for being late.

I would guess that any school/fbo that is even remotely busy doesn't want you to take their airplane for very long. Every hour that the airplane is on the ground is less money they're making.

 

[roundout]

I would guess that any school/fbo that is even remotely busy doesn't want you to take their airplane for very long. Every hour that the airplane is on the ground is less money they're making.

bingo. at my mom & pop flight school, i constantly get bitched at because other people are late. at UND, there are 45 other warriors you could take on your flight if one is late. not so at most small flight schools. if someone is late, i get yelled at.

i would instruct at UND a semester or two before leaving for part 61 (or a next-level gig). that way, you can learn how to instruct without having to worry too much about MX and trying to develop an effective syllabus. after you know how to teach, go part 61 and learn how the other half flies. you might think less bad about UND after you do.

 

[Tommay85]

bingo. at my mom & pop flight school, i constantly get bitched at because other people are late. at UND, there are 45 other warriors you could take on your flight if one is late. not so at most small flight schools. if someone is late, i get yelled at.

i would instruct at UND a semester or two before leaving for part 61 (or a next-level gig). that way, you can learn how to instruct without having to worry too much about MX and trying to develop an effective syllabus. after you know how to teach, go part 61 and learn how the other half flies. you might think less bad about UND after you do.

That's what I plan on doing starting next semester if I get my crap done in time. I know I'm not gona be ready to "settle" for the airline thing yet after graduation. I'm gona try to instruct here until I graduate and then possibly move back to the Chicago area. I'm kinda throwing around the idea of doing some bush flying. I've been keeping in touch with a guy I met when I went to sky harbor airport and he's said he'd love to offer me a job if one ever becomes available.

 

[Baronman]

I've seen it first hand with UND grads here in Spokane. An example would be checking out a UND guy in a Cessna. Here's a guy with a CFI and 200 hours dual given and I nearly need to take the airplane from him on his first couple of landings (I'm a fast talker). Really, the world outside the bubble expects more than that.
I think leaving your mother before proceding in this career, however, will teach you things you never imagined.

I'm with you that leaving UND to fly elsewhere will ultimately broaden your horizons more. I went to a "Big School," taught elsewhere and then back at the big school. Big schools have some good things, some bad, just like the mom and pop place. I think you should try to see it all.

The reason I highlighed the post though....I'm not sure what the anecdote is saying. Are you saying he shouldn't instruct at UND because you've seen first hand that they have a mediocre product? I can say I've seen "mom and pop" instructors run off the side of the runway. I think it reflects more on the individual pilot and less on the school.

Again....I have no dog in this fight...Never even been to the Dakotas!

 

[Screaming_Emu]

Never even been to the Dakotas!

you lucky bastard

 

[Dugie8]

"if you go to mom and pop FBO, every lesson isn't going to be some excursion to far off fantasy land"

The mom and pop FBO experience will get you out of the "sheltered" environment that an academy like UND produces. You'll deal with things and see things you'd never see at UND. Some of them aren't pretty but they build character and expand your experience level.

I've seen it first hand with UND grads here in Spokane. An example would be checking out a UND guy in a Cessna. Here's a guy with a CFI and 200 hours dual given and I nearly need to take the airplane from him on his first couple of landings (I'm a fast talker). Really, the world outside the bubble expects more than that.

Staying inside the bubble will lead to a regional job just as fast as going outside will, maybe faster. I think leaving your mother before proceding in this career, however, will teach you things you never imagined.

Don, you flew with one UND guy, who had a bad day in a Cessna, and now UND shelters its students??? UND doesn't build charachter? That is awfully big of you to say, glad you have been appointed to judge, jury and executioner of all that is holy in the aviaiton world.

There is no bubble at UND, there are weather mins, just like any FBO would have, the one here in RST wouldn't let me rent a 182 because the weather was going to be less than 1000 ovc in DVL (where I was going) in July.

People have always pissed and moaned about not being able to sit on the ground and go get a burger, blah blah blah. That is because I am sitting in dispatch waiting for the airplane so my student, who is more concerned with learning to fly than getting a hamburger at Hooters in the Mall of America, can go on our lesson. Airplanes make money in the air, not sitting on the ramp for 3 hours while social butterflies make their rounds.

UND used to let students overnight airplanes so they could go somewhere else, until people started abusing, coming back days later.

By far, the students turned out from UND were head and shoulders above the average part 61 student. Yup I said it, I flew with a lot of "test course" students who couldn't find their ass with both hands a flashlight and a map. A practice area, my god!!! what is that. You mean I have to keep a flight log for my cross countries AND stay on course, my god!

See I can do it too, make generalizations about other ways of doing things.

By the way Don, I had the misfortune of sharing the crew van with a UPS 757 Capt in LRD, the guy could not have been more of an ass to my crew, the hotel staff or the van driver, all because he couldn't read a schedule and determine the appropriate time to be in the lobby for a van ride to the airplane. Does that make all UPS pilots dickheads?