how can you possibly live on a pilot's starting salary??????

Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

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Poster: Alchemy

Promoting "alternate career paths" is fine, just spare those of us who chose to go to the regionals from your insults. Common courtesy goes a long way.

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I agree. We must all be idiots for wanting to go there. Maybe scoobs can share his/her secret as to how to make it big in aviation? And hopefully he/she doesn't mention the military, because for a lot of people, it isn't an option (Re: eyesight for one).

~wheelsup
 
Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

I know of a certain freight company that is easier to get on with then most regionals.Your starting pay will be higher and you will upgrade around 4 months to turbine equipment.No commuting and your home everyday.Plus the experience is invaluable.
 
Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

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dude, I was kidding.... :
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that's a nice part of the job, but it should not be the basis's of it...it should be to meet girls and tell them that YOU FLY THE BIG SHINY JETS:

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and as we learned earlier all you have to do is say you're a pilot and the girls start lining up.
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True, true, true,......BUT......I tell people that I am a pilot, and I'm not too quick to show them the cessna or piper that I fly..don't get me wrong there is nothing wrong with those aircraft, **BUT** you tell THEM and SHOW them your Big Shiny Jet, you can't go wrong
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Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

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I'm 19. My parents don't live my life for me, but they do make a lot of the decisions. I want to fly, and I don't mind not making much money for the fist few years, but they see it differently. BTW, I'm not wasting money by going to college. I'm going to be attending a college with a flight program and majoring in something unrelated to aviation (business, english, or engineering) as a fallback and flying on the side. They want me to work in whatever field I major in, but I want to build as many hours as possible and fly for a living. Maybe I can get them to change their mind and let me go for it.

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I understand the position you are in; however, as everyone else has mentioned, you have to do what will make you happy. In the end your parents will want you to be happy. I do not feel that you are wasting time getting your degree by any means. I majored in management (just like my father who has flown for NWA for the last 26 yrs) and though I have used it for the last couple of years I am persuing a career in aviation. If you plan on flying for an airline, having your degree is a really good idea....it won't hurt thats for sure. Anyway, follow your heart...no matter how tought it is financially. You can get through it....get your degree at the same time though. By the way, I don't know too many people that actually work in anything they major in. Hang in there
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Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

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Excuse me?

Who's being disrespected here? You or your parents?

If your parents would be disappointed with you doing something you love, then they are showing the ultimate in disrespect to you.

It is YOUR life. YOU have to live it. YOU are the one who has to look yourself in the mirror every morning. YOU are the one who has to say to himself, I am sick of being like Peter from Office Space and dreading going to the office every day and hating every minute I'm there.

If your parents are paying for the degree, get the engineering degree or whatever they're paying for. Ain't no reason you can't use that, get a job with that, CFI on the side, build your time and save your money, and then do what you want to do.

It is your life. You have to live it the way you want. And your parents won't be the ones thinking on your deathbed, what if.

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IceHawk,

Not to sound crass dude but get your balls back from your parents!
My father is considered somewhat of an important man back in Nigeria and when I told him that I wanted to be a pilot he forbade me as well.
His words were that while a pilot is a respected career choice as his son I could do better!
He said he always dreamt of me being a Judge or a senator or a neurosugeon or to come back to Nigeria as a man and be it's president.
Himself being a "high chief" and having a title meant everything to him he wanted the same for me.
But I felt as his son whatever I did was a direct reflection on him and he was always VERY strict with my sister and I.
When you have a degree in Nigeria the state pays for everything your house your car your help i.e. maids,drivers etc.
My mother always told me he would brag to his friends and family that he had a son in the states and that I was going to be an "important" man with power!
I guess pilots don't have alot of power and he was ashamed of my career choice and said that I was aiming to low and that I could do better!
I told him where he could go and that I live my life for myself and that he can support me and be a part of it or get the • outa my way he choose the former!
Oh well his loss not mine. I have no regrets but if you allow your parents to decide your future for you (more especially at 19 yrs.old) your headed for a life full of it!

-Matthew
 
Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

Guy,
Get your degree, finish that now or you'll have to finish it later. After you've graduated you'll have plenty of time to start flying, and with no debt!

Hang in there, I'm sure it feels like
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at times but when you've graduated you will have options and choices and you will be able to decide.
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Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

You guys are right. It's my life to live and I'm going to do what I love to do, instead of going with what "makes sense" and sitting behind a desk 10 years later wondering about what could have been. I'm still going to get the degree (something to fall back on,) but I'm going to continue the flight training at college and keep building those hours.
 
Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

That's probably the best thing to do. If your parents are paying for your college, they have the absolute right to demand that you major in something that "makes sense." It's their money, they can do that, and if you want to take their money, you've got to accept that.

On the other hand, what you do AFTER you graduate with that degree -- which you will need in order to get a job as a pilot -- is up to you.

Seriously, there is no reason you can't get a job as an engineer, build up hours and savings, and then take the plunge into aviation.
 
Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

In my case, being that I started to fly in college at 18, I had a pretty good idea of what I wanted to do and it was more of a "how to do it" question.

Before I told my parents of my intentions, I got one of those shiny new credit cards the first week of college, and within about 2 weeks I had it maxed out on flight lessons. Not really the smart way to go about it but....

After that ran out, I went to my parents and told them, "This is what I am going to do, I would like your support, both in financial respects, (co-signs on loans, and getting that credit card paid off), and in moral respects." I then told them if they wouldn't help I would be doing it on my own. Their support has been great. Their opinion is highly regarded to me, but the choices I make are mine to make and mine to live with.

My parents have enough respect for me to support my choices. I think yours would also. Sorry buddy, but I think growing a spine wouldn't hurt. Not trying to offend you at all. but IMO is your choice.
 
Hey all, stumbled upon this thread a few days ago felt i'd ask a quick question. Right now i'm few hours away from being a junior at baylor university, but like all have been contemplating my career choice in business. I looked at like this, sure..the degree would give me a good opp. after college but do i really want to work in business/open my own and have to work 10/12 years before i saw anything, not to mention tuition for another 3 years?

anyhow, i ws looking at the comair flight academy in orlando florida, thought i'd ask anyone if they thought this was a good way to rich the big leagues/airlines, i know they promise a spot on the regional airlines, and to me i feel just getting away from college/change of scenary may be good in my life, just enjoy it a little more. but i thought i'd ask anyone if they are in the regional airlines, and how many yes they expect to fly in the crj until they get the opp. to fly w/the big boys delta/aa/etc. if you could lend any advice, i'd greatly appreciate it.

aaron, tx.
 
Be careful here. Comair/Delta Connection doesn't promise a spot at the regionals, they promise an INTERVIEW after you've completed the program. Said program also includes about a year of instructing on a $10 an hour wage. I'd do some more looking around before jumping on the DCA bandwagon. There are more options out there.
 
kellwolf said:
Be careful here. Comair/Delta Connection doesn't promise a spot at the regionals, they promise an INTERVIEW after you've completed the program. Said program also includes about a year of instructing on a $10 an hour wage. I'd do some more looking around before jumping on the DCA bandwagon. There are more options out there.
:yeahthat: and search the forum and pour a drink and begin reading.
Welcome Aboard!
 
yeah, i know it's a marketing business but it looked like a nice option. Thanks for the advice, and hopefully i can pull the right moves and end up flying in a few years. I can sort of relate to the kid with the parent issues, but agreeing with everyone else, your parents can be more of a burden than anything, you have to depend on yourself ultimately because even with that degree, you miss the key component of responsiblity, you can't really earn that. So i let my rents help pay for my first two years, and now that i've decided to pursue a life that i see as more exciting/not as stressful so it's on me now. Because honeslty i got sick of my parents calling the major shots, and still having to get their approval for every move that i made, you are 18 man so i'd say take the help for a few years, and figure out what it is you really want to do. Because life to me is a lot more exciting when you are in control of yoru life. Either way it's a tough decision, but i honeslty think if you can finish up your degree at a local school, as long as you have that determination and slip of paper with the degree, you can make it to the bigs. i hope i can, but appreciate the advice yall.
 
Okay...here's a little insight from a freshly-minted regional F/O with a wife, a toddler, two dogs, three cats, a mortgage and one car payment:

Three words:

Part
Time
Job

If you don't have a spouse/Significant Other who makes enough money to carry the load - you bust YOUR hump to make sure the load gets carried.

Which brings me to another point: you KNOW going in that you're going to be making very little - so (and listen closely) don't go out and finance the BMW & $350K house just yet...... and like Lloyd said "Leave the chicks alone..." period.

For me, now that the luster has worn off - and I see what my paychecks are like.... This job is going to be a stepping stone.

To what - I don't know. Maybe a good corporate job. Maybe a major (probably not though).

Be realistic in your expectations. Go in eyes-WIDE-open. Know what you want and how you're going to get there.

Don't get me wrong - this job is Un-FREAKIN-believeably cool!!! Yes, there are negative folks - but there are negative folks in every profession (believe me - I knew attorneys making 6 figures who were absolutely MISERABLE).

I hope that helps. Probably not, but that's my 2 cents.

R2F
 
Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

Here goes my input. Pay in aviation does not follow or equate to pay progression in other industries. While the starting salaries are absurdly low...by the time you reach the ten to twelve year point in the industry you will probably be earning more than the average engineer or businessman...even at the regionals. My own pay pay progression per year went from $8000 to $16,000 to $23,000 to $35,000 to $48,000 to $85,000 to $120,000 to $150,000 over a twelve year span of time.

One of the reasons starting pay is so low...even at the regional first officer level...is that the pilot is not sufficiently qualified and experienced to command higher pay. The pilot is in essence "still in school" as an apprentice...learning the ropes and gaining experience to eventually serve as captain. In aviation...you cannot graduate from college with 500hrs and be qualifed to fly much of anything. The real education comes from years and years of "apprenticeship" as a first officer. As the pilot becomes an experienced apprentice...his ability to serve in command increases...his stock rises...and his pay accordingly.

When the pilot becomes sufficiently experienced to serve in command then his ability to earn a decent wage improves. Until that experience level is attained, however, the pilot is more of an "apprentice" than a pilot. In my opinion, the regional airlines do not put much importance on the first officer position. Otherwise they would hire more experienced pilots into that role. They view this position as an "apprenticeship" and rely on the captain to coach, mentor and conduct the flight in a safe manner.

Low pay is probably a good thing for young, low time pilots. Without it...it would be much more difficult to find a quality flying job...as much more experienced pilots would be more willing to accept the role.


:yeahthat:
I have to bring this thread up, as my first post, because I don't think I have EVER seen this put better. I have argued many times over in other forums, with pilots, trying to get this point across. Pilot pay is not as bad as it is made out to be, and there is a reason for low FO pay.

One BIG misconception some pilots have, is that people outside of aviation are typically making $2 and $300,000 per year. I hear pilots bring up, all of the time, their neighbor real estate agent, or friend who is in sales, who brings in $300,000 per year. The truth is, people making that kind of money make up such a small percentage of income earners in this country, they almost aren't even worth bringing up. The typical college educated person, in their career, will not make above the $60,000 to $80,000 per year mark, when their salary tops off. 95% or more of people, will not make more than that. Will some? Yes. But very few. Compare it to the FedEx or UPS captain making $250,000 per year. Is it possible to reach that point? Yes. But, only a few will reach that point.

Another big misconception among some pilots, is that people are typically seeing starting salaries, out of college, in the $50 to $60,000 per year range. While some may see that, the vast majority of people do not see over $40,000 as a starting salary in their career. AND, many of the fields that do offer high starting salaries, such as $50 to $60,000, do not top off much above that, in the end. For example, my sister is currently in college, majoring in pharmacy. Pharmacists are in big demand now. She can expect to see a starting salary anywhere in the $50 to $60 or even $70,000 per year range. HOWEVER, her salary will probably not top off above $80 to $90,000. Just because one sees a higher starting salary, doesn't mean they will see that salary double, or more, over time.

Pay progression is a really big point, that I think was explained VERY well in the quote above. Pilots typically progess in pay, much quicker than someone in another career. A regional pilot may make $25,000 their first year, and $30 to $40,000 their second year, which, again, $30 to $40,000 is no different than a typical starting salary out of college, but in a matter of a few years, with an upgrade to captain, they can see $70,000 to $80,000; senior captains at the regionals make even $90 to $100,000, depending on the airline. It takes most people their entire career before they finally see salaries that high. My Dad, for example, has two college degrees. He works in hospital administration. H has worked, for over 22 years, at this same hospital, managing 4 to 5 departments, and only in recent years saw $80,000 per year. $80,000 is actually a VERY good salary, that unfortunately, some pilots see as "underpaid".

There is no career that you can go into, that is going to make you "rich". There is no career that someone can go into, for the money. The average salary of a lawyer in this country, is $96,000. The average salary for a doctor is $216,000. The average salary for a CEO is $140,000. All of those are some of the highest paying jobs there are in this country. Yet, they are not outside of what a pilot could make in their career. And, that goes to show just how rare the extremely high income earners are. Think of the CEO's you've heard of making $millions, yet the average salary is $140,000. That shows how rare the $million dollar CEO is. And, CEO's often have masters degrees, and many, many years of experience, and time with a company, to get to that point. The same goes for lawyers. Think of how many $million, or $500,000 attorneys you hear of, yet the average salary is $96,000. That, again, shows how rare the higher paid ones are, that is doesn't bring the average way up. Or, that $300,000 real estate agent. The average real estate agent salary is $35,000, which means VERY few are making anywhere near $300,000. Just like you can't focus on the UPS captain making $250,000, and assume all pilots make that, you cannot just focus on someone outside of aviation, making $250,000, and think that all people in their career, our outside of aviation, are making that kind of money. Truth is, even if you spend your career at a regional, you will make as much, or more, than the typical career outside of aviation.
 
Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

:yeahthat:
I have to bring this thread up, as my first post, because I don't think I have EVER seen this put better. I have argued many times over in other forums, with pilots, trying to get this point across. Pilot pay is not as bad as it is made out to be, and there is a reason for low FO pay.

One BIG misconception some pilots have, is that people outside of aviation are typically making $2 and $300,000 per year. I hear pilots bring up, all of the time, their neighbor real estate agent, or friend who is in sales, who brings in $300,000 per year. The truth is, people making that kind of money make up such a small percentage of income earners in this country, they almost aren't even worth bringing up. The typical college educated person, in their career, will not make above the $60,000 to $80,000 per year mark, when their salary tops off. 95% or more of people, will not make more than that. Will some? Yes. But very few. Compare it to the FedEx or UPS captain making $250,000 per year. Is it possible to reach that point? Yes. But, only a few will reach that point.

Another big misconception among some pilots, is that people are typically seeing starting salaries, out of college, in the $50 to $60,000 per year range. While some may see that, the vast majority of people do not see over $40,000 as a starting salary in their career. AND, many of the fields that do offer high starting salaries, such as $50 to $60,000, do not top off much above that, in the end. For example, my sister is currently in college, majoring in pharmacy. Pharmacists are in big demand now. She can expect to see a starting salary anywhere in the $50 to $60 or even $70,000 per year range. HOWEVER, her salary will probably not top off above $80 to $90,000. Just because one sees a higher starting salary, doesn't mean they will see that salary double, or more, over time.

Pay progression is a really big point, that I think was explained VERY well in the quote above. Pilots typically progess in pay, much quicker than someone in another career. A regional pilot may make $25,000 their first year, and $30 to $40,000 their second year, which, again, $30 to $40,000 is no different than a typical starting salary out of college, but in a matter of a few years, with an upgrade to captain, they can see $70,000 to $80,000; senior captains at the regionals make even $90 to $100,000, depending on the airline. It takes most people their entire career before they finally see salaries that high. My Dad, for example, has two college degrees. He works in hospital administration. H has worked, for over 22 years, at this same hospital, managing 4 to 5 departments, and only in recent years saw $80,000 per year. $80,000 is actually a VERY good salary, that unfortunately, some pilots see as "underpaid".

There is no career that you can go into, that is going to make you "rich". There is no career that someone can go into, for the money. The average salary of a lawyer in this country, is $96,000. The average salary for a doctor is $216,000. The average salary for a CEO is $140,000. All of those are some of the highest paying jobs there are in this country. Yet, they are not outside of what a pilot could make in their career. And, that goes to show just how rare the extremely high income earners are. Think of the CEO's you've heard of making $millions, yet the average salary is $140,000. That shows how rare the $million dollar CEO is. And, CEO's often have masters degrees, and many, many years of experience, and time with a company, to get to that point. The same goes for lawyers. Think of how many $million, or $500,000 attorneys you hear of, yet the average salary is $96,000. That, again, shows how rare the higher paid ones are, that is doesn't bring the average way up. Or, that $300,000 real estate agent. The average real estate agent salary is $35,000, which means VERY few are making anywhere near $300,000. Just like you can't focus on the UPS captain making $250,000, and assume all pilots make that, you cannot just focus on someone outside of aviation, making $250,000, and think that all people in their career, our outside of aviation, are making that kind of money. Truth is, even if you spend your career at a regional, you will make as much, or more, than the typical career outside of aviation.

I am extremely happy somebody finally brought this up! The way some of the pilots come across on this website make it sound like being at a regional is the worst job in the world! Especially Mesa! A good friend of mine worked at Mesa as an FO for 2 years, upgraded to captain now flying ERJ-145 for $70,000, and can go up to 80k if he picks up extra trips. I repeat, this is his third year at MESA, yes the "walmart of the skies". So much for the "20k a year job" whining I here so often on this site. The regionals pay very well people! Pay your dues for a couple years, upgrade, and enjoy life!
 
Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

We have met the enemy, and he is us.

Oh but Mr. Train my father made $40k back in 1960 and raised 8 kids on the salary while mom was a stay at home mother. We never wanted for anything as children. So surely if a man can raise eight kids on $40k in 1960 someone can live on $80k in todays America!

:rolleyes:
 
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