how can you possibly live on a pilot's starting salary??????

Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

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I know how you feel. I don't see how you can survive on that salry. My parents won't even let me pursue a career in aviation because the salary is too low. They want me to become a businessman or engineer because it pays more. I love flying and really wanted to be a professional pilot, but I'll have to settle for flight simming and flying the 172 around on weekends for a $100 hamburger.

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Do something YOU want to do not your parents. I'd rather be poor and extremely happy with my life (which I am) rather than rich and miserable! Money IS NOT everything!

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was just about to do the same thing. Yes your parents might prefer you do something else, but with most parents if you explain to them that you wont be happy unless you're doin waht you want to do they should be willing to accept that. If not, do it anyway. its your life man.
 
Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

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I don't want to hijack this thread, so I may start a new thread on it.

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Coolio! Got to follow your dreams!

Speaking about the original topic at hand. It can be done living on a first years pilot salary. Heck even live on a CFI salary! Just have to be smart about what you spend!
 
Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

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My parents won't even let me pursue a career in aviation because the salary is too low. They want me to become a businessman or engineer because it pays more. I love flying and really wanted to be a professional pilot, but I'll have to settle for flight simming and flying the 172 around on weekends for a $100 hamburger.

[/ QUOTE ]eh? how old are you again? not to be rude, but are your parents going to be living your life/career or you?

i know you probably went into the whole thing before with your old username or whatnot, but if you've chosen to not take a career in aviation, it isn't because of your parents...or at least i sincerely hope not...because some day, if you continue to blame your parents and not take full blame yourself for "giving up" on your choice of career, you'll resent them for that and that's the last thing you want to do to yourself or them. just FYI, been there, done that.

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I'm 19. My parents don't live my life for me, but they do make a lot of the decisions. I want to fly, and I don't mind not making much money for the fist few years, but they see it differently. BTW, I'm not wasting money by going to college. I'm going to be attending a college with a flight program and majoring in something unrelated to aviation (business, english, or engineering) as a fallback and flying on the side. They want me to work in whatever field I major in, but I want to build as many hours as possible and fly for a living. Maybe I can get them to change their mind and let me go for it.
 
Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

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My parents won't even let me pursue a career in aviation because the salary is too low. They want me to become a businessman or engineer because it pays more. I love flying and really wanted to be a professional pilot, but I'll have to settle for flight simming and flying the 172 around on weekends for a $100 hamburger.

[/ QUOTE ]eh? how old are you again? not to be rude, but are your parents going to be living your life/career or you?

i know you probably went into the whole thing before with your old username or whatnot, but if you've chosen to not take a career in aviation, it isn't because of your parents...or at least i sincerely hope not...because some day, if you continue to blame your parents and not take full blame yourself for "giving up" on your choice of career, you'll resent them for that and that's the last thing you want to do to yourself or them. just FYI, been there, done that.

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I'm 19. My parents don't live my life for me, but they do make a lot of the decisions. I want to fly, and I don't mind not making much money for the fist few years, but they see it differently.

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hate to tell you man, but they're not gonna be around forever.
 
Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

Like many others, I too would like to fly the "shiny jet" someday. Everyone in here seems to know the pay sucks, why don't the regionals see it?

I know other pilots that say you could make more working fastfood which is true. But being a new FO you have a lot more responsibilies than those fastfood guys.

When you finally do get your first job with the regionals, unless you have tons-o-money, you have your bills, cost of living, and not to forget the BIG loan that you got to pay for your trainning. I was one of the ones that had to finance my flight training. So that's an additional expense for me.

Also, I have heard that it can take you up to a couple years to advance to Capt, (from what I have heard)

If you really think about it, these are some of the worse conditions to start off with. But all in all, EatSleepFly best summed it up "Dude, you're being silly. It doesn't matter what you make. You're flying a shiny new JET!!!!!!!!!!!! "

Well said my friend
 
Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

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Speaking about the original topic at hand. It can be done living on a first years pilot salary. Heck even live on a CFI salary! Just have to be smart about what you spend!

[/ QUOTE ]but to top it off, it does pay to have a sugamomma around when you need one!
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Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

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Aside from the tips already mentioned, it also helps to realize early on that flying isn't a career or a job. Anyway you cut it, it's a lifestyle. You're commiting to great views from the office, lots of cool buttons, dials, and switches, and the potential for intense enjoyment from your time in the pointy end of the plane. You're also tied to years of crappy pay, little or no job security, high costs of education, a fair amount of risk, and little appreciation from those you work for (bosses and clients alike).

Most people who stick with it seem to make flying a priority and have to let other aspects of their life come second. With my limited experience as a full-time instructor, I can say that if you don't want to eat it, breathe it, and sleep it, it's going to be a loooong ride.

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Good post.
 
Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

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L But all in all, EatSleepFly best summed it up "Dude, you're being silly. It doesn't matter what you make. You're flying a shiny new JET!!!!!!!!!!!! "

Well said my friend

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I hope you know he was being sarcastic
 
Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

WHAT!!!!!!!!! I thought pilots were incredibly rich and only worked like 2 days a month. The rest of thier time is spent mingling with the stewardess'

I'm gonna say that ramen goes a long way as well as puttin off shiny new car etc... When I was instructing I was bringin in a whopping 500 a month working 6 days a week and another 600 workin 2 days a week. It wasn't fun but this is what I love. Looking back I had a great time. Its amazing the friends you build when you figure out how to cheat the candy machine.

Plus it gets much better after your first year and it just goes up from there.
 
Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

Easy! Go with the $60 hos instead of the $300+ ones!
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Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

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I dunno bout that...I think saving that $60 could buy you dinner for a good 2-3 weeks!
 
Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

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My parents won't even let me pursue a career in aviation ...... I love flying and really wanted to be a professional pilot, but I'll have to settle ........

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!!!!!!!
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Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

Well, I was going to send you a PM about this, but you have them turned off so here goes - I was an engineer for about 2 years of college and I hated pretty much every minute of it. I hated the work I was doing, I was bored to tears and I didn't want to go to class - ever. I finally came to accept (through a long drawn out process) that engineering wasn't for me and I decided to make the switch to Anthropology. My parents surprisingly were incredibly supportive of me despite my mom's "what are you going to do for a job" pleas. I had to realize that when I left engineering that I would be making about a third of what i would have had I stayed there. Money isn't everything with that, and as I'm quickly finding out a job you don't like makes everything else in your life suck. You're a miserable person to be around cause all you do is bitch about work and it basically taints everything in your life.

ANyway I guess what I'm trying to say with all this is if you do the engineering or buisness thing for a while and don't like it, switch to something else. Keep working on your ratings. Your parents will probably be more supportive than you think they will. Parents generally have a way of surprising you with that sort of stuff. In the end they just want you to be happy.
 
Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

I know that both my fiance and I have changed majors. I started pre-med. Certianly woudl be making a ton more then I will be teaching. But I love working with kids. I was working with a school as my work study job, and enjoyed it so much I decided to switch to education. People have asked me why I would settle for teaching if I am smart (I will never understand why people believe only idiots should teach their children). I've had a riot since I switched to education in my classes, and in the fact that I get to have a life. My fiance started in engineering at U of I and hated it. Money doesn't mean anything when you are an underclassmen and you are taking more classes then others and you dislike them. He just kept talking about how hard it was to be inside on the beautiful days and knowing that there were people out at the airport flying. He bailed on the idea of being an engineer, and is loving what he does now. I must say he is much more fun to be around.
If you are interested in something else try taking a class or two in that area as an elective. Then you can see if you really like it without hurting your chances in what you are in.
 
Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

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Speaking about the original topic at hand. It can be done living on a first years pilot salary. Heck even live on a CFI salary! Just have to be smart about what you spend!

[/ QUOTE ]but to top it off, it does pay to have a sugamomma around when you need one!
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But sometimes, you can't depend on her. It's amazing how fast she can vanish and have a new boyfriend in 3 or 4 days!!
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Sorry...past bitterness comes out sometimes . . .
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You can make nit on the cheap. Get a room mate. Eat Ramen. Drop the car payment, drive a hooptie. Cook meals at home (as much as you can). Stop going out to get drunk - buy your stuff at the store and get smashed at home.

Decide what's important to you, and decide what you want. After that, it's easy!!

Oh, BTW - leave the chicks alone. They're nothing but trouble!!!
 
Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

One thing that you don't hear much of anymore is drug running. There was quite a little spate of it in the 80s. I can think of 3 pilots at my airline that got caught trying to make a big score using light airplanes. Also two of my former bosses from two different companies tried to bail their companies out doing it. Some rampers down in Miami were reportedly driving Rolls Royces to work. etc. etc.

Of course you only hear about the ones that got caught.
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Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

Here goes my input. Pay in aviation does not follow or equate to pay progression in other industries. While the starting salaries are absurdly low...by the time you reach the ten to twelve year point in the industry you will probably be earning more than the average engineer or businessman...even at the regionals. My own pay pay progression per year went from $8000 to $16,000 to $23,000 to $35,000 to $48,000 to $85,000 to $120,000 to $150,000 over a twelve year span of time.

One of the reasons starting pay is so low...even at the regional first officer level...is that the pilot is not sufficiently qualified and experienced to command higher pay. The pilot is in essence "still in school" as an apprentice...learning the ropes and gaining experience to eventually serve as captain. In aviation...you cannot graduate from college with 500hrs and be qualifed to fly much of anything. The real education comes from years and years of "apprenticeship" as a first officer. As the pilot becomes an experienced apprentice...his ability to serve in command increases...his stock rises...and his pay accordingly.

When the pilot becomes sufficiently experienced to serve in command then his ability to earn a decent wage improves. Until that experience level is attained, however, the pilot is more of an "apprentice" than a pilot. In my opinion, the regional airlines do not put much importance on the first officer position. Otherwise they would hire more experienced pilots into that role. They view this position as an "apprenticeship" and rely on the captain to coach, mentor and conduct the flight in a safe manner.

Low pay is probably a good thing for young, low time pilots. Without it...it would be much more difficult to find a quality flying job...as much more experienced pilots would be more willing to accept the role.
 
Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

Thank you very much for your post!
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This really puts everything into perspective for me, your post should be a must read for every inspiring pilot on this site.

Thank you
 
Re: how can you possibly live on a pilot\'s starting salary??????

Also keep in mind that this pay structure was devised over many years when ALPA was very much in control. In other words they could have cut the pie differently. At one point, shortly after the introduction of jets, upgrades were brisk and FO pay really sucked (compared to today) believe it or not. There was still a lot of the attitude coming from the piston days that FOs were excess baggage and were lucky to get paid at all. But in the 70s with some airlines experiencing stagnation and even furloughs there was a lot of pressure to bring up FO and SO pay. So the percentages were brought up quite a bit. When I was hired in '79 I flew with many FOs who were at 15-16 years and not close to captain, they were ready to burn ALPA's house down. They were tired of captains and tired of pay stagnation. So FO and SO percentages were a high priority.

Regional airlines have really upset the apple cart. The miscalculations that ALPA made in this area are too many to list. But if they had been able to see what was coming scope clauses would never have come in to ALPA contracts. In a misguided attempt to preserve the very high captain rates and current pay of major airline pilots that were already on the properties, they opened the door for what we have now.

The regionals are past their fast upgrade period and some are headed for downturns if not shut downs. Then we'll see how much patience there is for getting stuck in these very low paying FO seats.
 
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